Natalee Holloway’s Body Believed Found in Aruba

UPDATE 6: Jawbone DOES NOT belong to Natalee Holloway. Additional details here.

UPDATE 5: A possible breakthrough as a forensics team is preparing to test a jawbone that could belong to Natalee Holloway.

UPDATE 4: A dive team has been dispatched to search for the possible remains of Natalee Holloway.

UPDATE 3 : A couple believes that they have photographic proof of the remains of Natalee Holloway from a snorkeling trip in Aruba.

UPDATE 2: Is the confession by Joran van der Sloot real, or just a fantasy? Follow this link for more information.

UPDATE: It’s been nearly nine months now and I have not seen any new updates. I noticed that a Natalee Holloway movie is being shown on Lifetime and I wonder exactly where this case stands. Will we ever find Natalee? Will we ever know what really happened?

According to multiple sources, a cadaver dog has been flown to Aruba today as authorities believe they have found the body of  Natalee Holloway.

Holloway was last seen in May 2005 leaving a bar with Joran Van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the island.

I’ll reserve judgment and chalk this up to rumor until I have seen confirmation.

From Fox News:

If confirmed and her body indeed is located, it would end an exhaustive four-year search on the Caribbean island where the 18-year-old disappeared while on a graduation trip with friends.

A flight attendant for American Airlines told the New Times, an alternative weekly, that the specially trained dog was aboard a plane originating in Miami and bound for Aruba.

The officer accompanying the dog reportedly told the airline employee that they were going to retrieve what was believed to be Holloway’s remains.

“They think they’ve found where Natalee Holloway’s remains are, and they’re taking the dog down there to confirm that,” the flight attendant told the paper. “They’re not telling anybody because Aruba’s trying to keep this quiet.”

No trace of Holloway has ever been found, despite extensive searches involving hundreds of volunteers, soldiers, FBI agents and even Dutch F-16 jets with special equipment.

Aruban investigators reopened the case last year based on the hidden-camera recordings made by Dutch television crime reporter Peter R. de Vries.

But judges rejected an attempt to re-arrest Van der Sloot for statements he made on the Dutch TV show. The hidden-camera recordings showed Van der Sloot saying he was with Holloway when she died on the Dutch Caribbean island and that he had a friend dump her body at sea.

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189 Comments on “Natalee Holloway’s Body Believed Found in Aruba”

  1. Brittany Says:

    I have followed this story since it first broke, if true, this is amazing. I hope somehow they can find the proof they need to convict Jordan… He is a cold blooded killer and I hope that he gets what he deserves. RIP Natalie Holloway.

  2. […] Natalie Holloways Body Believed Found in Aruba Kreuzers Korner […]

  3. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Having just read this, I’m in shock! I missed the Fox News Report, and there was no mention of it in other News (I watched). I, too, followed every second of this Case, and, OMG, I do hope it’s true! The 2nd thing that comes to my mind though, is, if it IS true, why wasn’t she found in all the many lengthy previous Searches on the Island? WOW! I’m waiting and hoping with held-Breath.

  4. I hope they did find her body, the last 4 years i have been waiting for an update on this. I hope they sentence the killers to prison for life. I cant wait to hear the news,i hoped and hoped for natalie. If you need more updates there will be a Natalie Holloway movie on lifetime movie network,on sunday april 19. at 7/8 central,i hope they found her.

  5. pak31 Says:

    Any word on the search?????

  6. Karma Says:

    Im sorry that things like this happen in the world but at the same timee
    why is the blame solely on the men. I am a women and believe she is as to blame for her death as they are. They said plenty of times that she went willingly. She was the one
    Who got into the car and drove off. Im sorry but as a selfrespecting girl
    that is something that you just dont do. She is 17 not 3 she should have
    already been aware of the cruelty in this world. i am so sick of everyone
    treating this case as an actual kiddnapping its not it is just what happens
    when a little girl thinks she is all grown up and doesnt know how to keep her legs closed.
    she should have known better and thought it through a little bit more come on people
    she is a victim of her own stupidity stop making her out to be this angel on her way to church school. Her mom has her own burden of blame in this as well What mother in her right mind that supposedly cares that much for her own childs well being and safety lets her go out of her country underage is she as sheltered as her daughter from this world or just as stupid? there is no way my mother or father would let me out of the state let alone another country. and that has nothing to do with the issue of trust it simply the way he said it is best,” You will not go where i cannot protect you. i wouldnt be able to live with myself if me wanting to be your friend is what cost your death. I would rather have you hate me and be alive then be where i cant get to you with me alive.” So can everyone stop treating this case as something more then a wild child that got the harsh lesson in life but set a good example of the real world to children that want to be just like her.

  7. sha Says:

    karma you are a worthless piece of crap!

  8. doodle Says:

    Karma, I think you need some serious help. You are a disgrace to women. I hope you get your Karma one day but I sure hope your children if you have any do not have to pay for your stupidity. People, men and women make mistakes and you really don’t know what happened other than SHE WAS MURDERED! You think it’s ok I guess because according to you she asked for it. Well, if one of your children is missing or murdered you remember your words! You disgust me.

  9. vidkid Says:

    Right Karma…. it’s her fault she dead, she deserved it, she knew she was going to be killed and went willingly, right Karma……… you are indeed, BAD KARMA

  10. jaimie Says:

    wow karma you need to think it out what you wrote she is 17 at 17 you make A LOT of mistakes thats why there called mistakes there are men out there that are very smooth when it comes to talking to women so if i except a drink from a waiter or waitress and they put something in it i guess it would be my fault because i ordered it

  11. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Yo “KARMA”…. Your REAL Name wouldn’t happen to be
    JORAN VANDERSLOOT would it??!!!!

  12. Janet Says:

    You are 100% correct about a 17 girl or boy getting into a car with male strangers, So at any given point where does anyone have the right to take another persons life???? It was a very poor call on her part to go with these guys……So lets use her for sex then dispose her body..WOW Karma you are so far off base,You might want either retract your comment or look up mistake in the dictionary. I hope that is not how you explain things to your children or any others….
    Karma I dont wish you bad Karma I wish you understanding, hope and faith….

  13. Karma conscience Says:

    Very well put…..

  14. M OLIVARES Says:

    KARMA< ur A Straight B!@T# for saying that. If u had kids maybe u would understand. at 17 anybody would make mistakes! even getting into a car with other guys. Yea maybe she shouldnt have got into the car but she was young and naive just like we all were @ that age. Like they said before KARMA is a bitch!

  15. Umbrian Says:

    Karma you sound like a serial killer. Warped thinking, hallucinations, sick view of the world, etc. Maybe your father used to fuck you when you were a kid and you’ve always blamed yourself for it. You should just off yourself you fucking loser.

  16. Amber Says:

    Did karma really say that? Were you drunk, or dropped on your head as a child. Are you saying if a seven year old child goes with someone, even though they have been taught not to , they they deserve to be raped and murdered also. You are sick!

  17. emily Says:

    Try to go to the laywers house and look in his pool remember she loved to swim. They could of put her body in the bottom of the pool re cemented. And as for the dog blood in the matress were is the dog now. Maybe he was killed by his owner and th eperson involved in this crime. Go back to the attorneys house and have it fully checked by more then one dog. Check for a well in his yard or somewhere in the area. It may have cement and flowers around it. My mom dreamed this.

  18. Karma Says:

    Why is it when others have a different point of view people get so volgar. Damn here you are feeling bad for someone and saying your comments like its a sad story then you attack me sounding like you have no compassion in the would. I will not off myself sorry my life is far to great, I am not sick or dillusinal actually I am probably well more educated then any of you, and my father would have never done any thing to me but might i suggest that to Umbrian that projection doesnt mean u have talked about what your father has done to you it means you have passed it off onto someone else as there supposed problem(see a therapist).I WILL NOT RETRACT MY STATEMENT! I stand firmly to my belief that mistakes will be made but if you get in a car with strangers the thought of a tragedy must enter your mind at sometime before. Again no one said she asked for it but she did put herself out there for it.

  19. Karma Says:

    Like i said no one has the right to take anothers life but at the same time you have to put some blame on her own responsibilities. Why is it now a days kids can do what ever the hell they want and just pass the blame onto others. You guys are all sitting here saying oh poor girl and poor mom but you cannot tell me that if it was your kid you wouldnt feel some fault for trying to be so much of a friend that you let your parental duties slip. And yes a young girl can make mistakes but when is it a mistake and when is it just plan stupidity. Come on how many of you honestly would go in a group of friends see someone cute and take off with a car full of strangers? If any of you would then you probably are not from this planet and you have no sense of reality. Every other day you here about this in some part of the world and you think you would be the spaecial one. Like i said its not that im glad it happened to her some part of my heart does go out to her family but if it takes one persons stupidity to have the girls in todays society realize one thing that can save them from wanting to be just like her so be it. The sacrifice of one is ok if its for the best of the society.

  20. Karma Says:

    Also to everyone trying to compare this to a waitress dropping something in a drink or a 7 yr old child please reframe from doing so we are not talking about this in a general aspect we are having a conversation about one specific case.

  21. Angeliv Says:

    I have been following this story for along time to also like the rest of you. I think this is just a sad thing that happened to such a great person. Karma for you to make such a smartass comment that basically it was her fault that shows that you are very uneducated and it shows just how u were raised must not been very good, 17 is still young everyone makes mistakes. You shouldnt fault them for them especially something as traggic as something like this. Thats just shows u have no heart. When u have a child someday you will realize what it is to be a mom. What your child means to you.

  22. karma Says:

    Ok can you guys please read the next line very carefully because obviously you are not getting it. It is known it todays world that you cannot get in the car or go anywhere with a stranger hense the saying “stranger danger” so yes 17 is young and mistakes will be made but there is a difference between mistakes and stupidity against common sense. Again i believe it is her fault that she put herself in that situation but in no way is that saying she deserved to die. Again by her doing what she did and seeing what happened to her there will be some good to come out of it when you speak and tell this story to your children and they do not get in that car. in no way can you argue with me on that unless you just wish to be confertational. Why do you try to comment on the way i was raised? I am the 2cd of 4 and all my family is well educated. No of us have been to jail or even suspended from school. We were all in sports and graduated at the top of our class. everyone in my family has at least a B.A except one which is a marine. The oldest of us 4 is going on 26 so i would say our education level surpasses most at our age. My parents both worked and we could go to our mother and father for anything. so as you can see i probably had a better childhood then most of you, no way is that meant to be a fight. I do have a heart but i also have a mind to see past the heartache and see the bits of reality that make a whole picture. It is a sad moment for any mother to go through and a terrible ordeal for anyone to face but it is one that could have been avoided. So i stand by my statements. But i do not blame her most of all i Blame the mom kids are stupid thats the point to being a kid i understand but the mom knows better and should have protected her offspring. she should not have cared that her daughter would hate her for a couple of days she should have known better. So as you say angeliv you should know what it is to be a mom!! be a mom say no when you have to. Be the mom not the friend thats what you were put here for.

  23. Qualiyah Says:

    i hope u find her they said that the boy slipt something in her drink and when she went with the boys the boy who was driveing said did she wanted to go back with her friends and she told her friend she wS GOING BACK TO THE HOTEL but she wanted go see the light house he took her to the light house he was all kissing her he was trying to have sex whit her they say he raped her she kept telling him to stop that is when she layed down she stared to shake he put her body behind the bushes and then somebody comes and they all got on the boat then got a little far so she moved a little and he did not want her to stay alive because he rapped her so they thew her in the ocen the say she got ate by a shark

  24. KARMA KILLA Says:

    …in reply to your numerous postings “KARMA”. You’ve claimed to be educated and yet your grammar/spelling is equivalent to a elementary student(in the “special” class.) It’s sad there are naive people like yourself breathing the same air as the rest of us. What’s the weather like in that bubble your living in? Ignorance is bliss…isn’t it? You’re fucking pathetic.

  25. Honeydog0629 Says:

    “KARMA”, YOU are the one “Not getting it”…. If you want to “Educate” us and/or “Prove a Point”, say something that actually MAKES SENSE. You are SO Far- off in your Thinking, Rationalizations, Theories, Judgements, Analizations, Summarizations, and
    Solutions, that it’s like listening to a complete Idiot with NO Common Sense OR Education. NONE OF US, including YOU, know WHAT really happened that Night with Natalie…. How do YOU know she was a “Wild Child” or that she “Spread her Legs”??!! And YOU have the NERVE to write that WE’RE “Vulgar”!!!! Go away and try to push your Assinnine Bull-Shit off on Somebody who’s had a BRAIN Labotomy…. I’m sure there you’ll get the “Understanding” you want.

  26. Elizabeth Says:

    okay i just have to say that when you see a cute boy and you’ve never had a cute boy like you like that the first thought that crosses your mind is not that hes going to kill you. It might not be her smartest point but she was 17 she had a whole life in front her. all she wanted was for the guy to like her. its not crazy, she wasn’t stupid she was just being a kid.if i was her i probably would have done the same thing (not knowing the result) Also when the mother said she could go she wasn’t being stupid she wasn’t just trying to be her friend. she would never have thought something like that would have happened on a SCHOOL TRIP. gosh some of you are just stupid (Karma).

  27. katie Says:

    how can you guys say things like that? i mean, it was a young girl.. how would you feel if that was your daughter?
    she was only seventeen, she was still a baby and her life was just about to start.
    im sixteen and your probably at the age of dead and your right.. karma.
    its going to backfire on you.

  28. jaden Says:

    Natlee Holloway,s people i do not know you but i love you and i pray every night while going to bed that they will find her and aresst the nasty people that killed or try to kill ur Natlee sorry though you are in my prays and thought love u !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. Tim Says:

    It’s not surprising to see how some commenters suffer from “tunnel vision” syndrome. A kid that decided to law down on train tracks and is later run over by a train, should we feel sorry for his death? Yes. But he was asking for it. It’s important for us to see the whole picture and use our rational minds, and not speak only from emotions.
    Those who attack Karma and specially those who accuse her of uneducated and what not, are clearly have never heard of tolerance and respect for other people’s opinion.
    As much as we hate to admit or believe, there are naive girls out there just asking for trouble. They believe evil does not exist in this world and do not make any judgments before taking action. They jump of a bridge without rationalizing first that they might need a parachute or that jumping might cause his/her death. Ive seen women leave from clubs with total strangers in their cars. What if this person was a criminal-psychopath?
    I do not know Natalee, I don’t know if she was naive, but if she was, as tragic and as much most of you would hate to accept, it was in PART her fault. Personally, I put most of the blame on the parents who should guide their children into being aware and protective as well as the school system who should be teaching out children how to survive in this world.

  30. >>hi?! Says:

    Ok, i think Karma has a good point. It was her choice to get in the car, and to go with the guys. But, at the same time she shoudlve known that there is always a chance she MAY be killed. She went out with guys she barely knew, while possible under the influence of drugs or alchol.. But, it still kinda isnt her fault because she didnt know that she would be killed. But still, that just goes to show that you should always be prepared, and always suspect soemthing bad to happen, because you dont know when it could really happen. But anyway, i feel sorry for her parents and family becuase they lost her, if shes dead. She could still be alive?! It hasnt really been proven v.v… has it? e.e..

  31. Honeydog0629 Says:

    This has nothing to do with all of us here on this Site not having “Respect” for each other’s “Opinions”.
    It is the WAY in which Karma’s “Opinion” is like those Narrow-minded kinds of People who simply say “They got what they Deserved”, and the “Attack” on Natalie’s “Character” as being a “Wild Child” who “Spread her Legs”. I repeat, NONE of Us— and certainly NOT Karma— knows WHO instigated WHAT. In using these Words, Karma actually places his/her self in the SAME Category as the MEN he/she is trying to “Defend” who THINK this way! And while Karma insists a large portion of the Blame lies with Natalie’s Parents, what about the GUY’s Parents! I suppose THEY have NO Responsibility whatsoever to Raise and Teach their Son/Sons the Meaning of Values, Morals, and Decency!…. What about the possibility of it not happening if THEY had been Better Parents!
    Worse yet, THESE Parents have actually AIDED their Son in Getting-AWAY with his Crime, which— no matter HOW “Responsible” any Girl might be— He, and others like him, are permitted to go On-their-Merry-Way and think it’s Fine to do what THEY do and “No Harm” will come to THEM! I suppose TOO that the
    “Lesson” learned from Karma’s “Opinion” that “The Sacrifice of One is Okay if it’s for the Best of the Society”, it’s OKAY that Girls CONTINUE to be Murdered by MALES who didn’t have the Proper “Up-bringing”, “Instruction”, and “Supervison”, thus
    putting our Society in Damn-Good Shape! GET REAL. Nobody Disagrees with the Fact that we ALL have to be Careful these days— no matter Where or What Age or Gender we are— But, don’t imply “Tunnel-Vision” or “Not Looking at the WHOLE Picture” in this Case as being the Shortcomings of others, when you actually haven’t thoroughly Expanded your Mind and fully Contemplated ALL Sides yourself.

  32. Anonymous Says:

    We can’t change what has happened. Unfortunately, anyone intoxicated has very poor judgement, whether naive or not. Whoever takes a life is a criminal, is not an excuse if the person happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, is under hormones or alcohol. No doubt this young woman had some personal issues of her own, but who doesn’t at that age? Karma presents a point that we all should consider… parental responsability can not be ignored. You can’t expose your immature child to a world of danger without being prepared for the consequences. It is very sad what has happened, but blaming others doesn’t take away the individual responsability in the matter of all parties. Whoever did it, will receive it eventually.

  33. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Well, that’s a MUCH Better Way of putting it, and at least the last Sentence is Right-on-the-Money. In Karma’s “Point” (Parental Responsiblity cannot be Ignored) he/she was ONLY referring to NATALIE’S Mother…. THAT is BIASED; So let’s just REMEMBER the Responsibility DOESN’T solely-fall on the GIRL’S Parents. Personally, I don’t think anyone can say—from what we’ve all heard and seen from Natalie’s Parents since Day-One— that they were anything other than a Good, Decent, Close, Church-going Family, who were Very-Caring and Involved with their Daughter, her Friends, and her Activities. For Karma to IMPLY that Natalie’s Mother was obvioiusly
    NEGLIGENT in her “Protection of her Offspring” is NOT an “Opinion” OR a “Point”…. it’s an Un-founded ATTITUDE. I have no Doubt that all “Ground” was covered between Natalie and her Mother beforehand, and I have to Disagree that ANYONE is “Prepared for the Consequences”. If in Fact Alcohol and/or Sex did Play a Part, it doesn’t take-away MY Point that any DECENT GUY, with GOOD PARENTS and a GOOD UP-BRINGING would have at LEAST made sure Natalie got back to her Hotel; He surely wouldn’t have Killed her, or left her to Die, or not called for Help if there was a Serious Problem, and then Lie and Cannive his way out of it, WITH the Help of HIS Parents afterwards. Yes, let’s DO Remember the WHOLE Picture and “All Parties” in this Case, rather than trying to Pass-off the un-fair “Singling-out” and Condemming of merely Two— Natalie and her Mother— as “Summing-up” the ENTIRE Reason for things like this happening.

  34. cheyenne Says:

    This story about natallie has been going on for a long time. I hope she is still alive i want to know more about what happend to her i will get the book and asked more questions!!!!!!!!

  35. cheyenne Says:

    I,M really want to know what real happend to her. it been a long time.

  36. Buddah Says:

    As for the article, I believe this article is a hoax because Natalee Holloway is such a high profile case that:
    a) a team of DNA experperts would be sent not a guy and his dog,
    b) the finding of human remains alleged to be Natalee would have been all over the news and were not,
    c) still no Natalee news…

    As for karma, chain that chameleon in the same cage with those criminals who deceived, drugged, raped and murdered Natalee.

    “Walk one day in my shoes, and you’ll know where I’ve been.”

  37. Colin Says:

    If this gil was my daughter the men that had sex with her would birl and killed her
    Even if the girl had a heart attack they should have called for help
    It is said that anyone in help should be helped and if these men had called the authourities and Hospital there would have been a good closure to this but for these 3 men to tell that they all had sex with a VIRGIN Girl I am sorry to say they would be in so much trouble with me they would be missing
    If i were the parents listening to those pigs They would think water boarding was a surfing dream
    Just rememebr you lot out there this world is a small place and make sure you dont cross me
    The parents of this girl have allowed these men to say the raped her and took advantage of her is this not enough to jail these bastards
    The Justice system does not exist in Aruba and is a shameful sham
    I would have shot all those involved and the parent should have done this to these men I would have had them nailed to a tree by their testicals

  38. Sharl Says:

    Sad story!!!!

  39. Sharl Says:

    I have to say that its easy for us who were not there in the situation at the time to point fingers and see things in black and white. When alcohol is involved and I read that they were doing cocaine, things get messy and people do things that they wouldnt usually do. Like Natalie going with the 3 guys she only just met. Maybe she felt safe with them at the time. I dont beleive they were predators waiting to attack some poor naive girl that came their way. I think she was having a good time with them but probably wasnt very experienced in taking cocaine and overdosed. I wouldnt say they killed her! She probably wanted to have fun, it was her last night there and probably took way more than was safe as she was drinling as well. Van der Slooth with have been with her at the stage when she OD’d and died and he got scared and panicked and didnt want to get in trouble and ruin his reputation for something he didnt intentionally do so he got his friend to dump her body at sea. Im not saying what he did was right but he didnt kill her. No one killed her but the alcohol that impaired her judgment. I dont know why alcohol is legal? I know from personal experience how things can go from being safe and having a few drinks in a safe environment to getting drunk and bad things happening around you and you loose focus of because of the alcohol in your system. I blame ALCOHOL!

  40. CHRISY Says:

    I have been interested in this case for a long time. Even if she got into that car with those boys is that a reason to kill her. I think before you open your mouth about things you dont’ know about you should maybe have a little compassion and shut your mouth when it is not needed…..KARMA

  41. Ashley Says:

    vidkid what is wrong with you shes dead because of that Jordan guy. I saw the movie and if you notice in the movie he wasn’t shur if she was dead. When her life ended that guy probaly didn’t care. I agree with Colin they should of called for help.

  42. Honeydog0629 Says:

    “Ashley”, you misinterpreted “Vidkid’s” Comment….
    He was MOCKING “Karma”, NOT Agreeing.

  43. ROBERT HALE Says:


  44. i love karma Says:

    he is the best. so please stop hating on him this aint about you this is about a girl that no one can find. i think she is crazy for going in a car with guys and she was also way to young too drink.if she had used her head she woulda still been alive

  45. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Natalee might very-well still be ALIVE if JORAN VANDERSLOOT would have RAN OR CALLED FOR HELP when
    She was laying on the Beach having a “Siezure-like” Episode, INSTEAD OF TAKING-OFF AND LEAVING HER! There is NO EXCUSE for that!! He DIDN’T EVEN CHECK to see if she was Dead or Alive, and He COULD HAVE. WHO is
    the One who DIDN’T USE THEIR HEAD here!! Whether Natalee went or didn’t, or was Drinking or not, She encountered a Situation WHICH REQUIRED SOME MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, and HER LIFE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN SAVED if this COLD-HEARTED SCUM-BAG WOULD HAVE SIMPLY HELPED HER!!! He’s the “BEST”?????? There’s SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU!!!!

  46. vidkid Says:

    Give me 5 mins with little Jordan and we’ll find her body……

  47. Just amazing Says:

    This is truly amazing….This girl goes missing and all this happens is it because she is WHITE or has MONEY….What about Natasha Norman she never got this much press. The girl is dead let her rest and move on…I am deeply sorry that this had to happen to her and her family but let it go if she was as good of a person as you say she is or the media is trying to portray she is with God now.

  48. beekind Says:

    Karma is speaking truth. Drinking, getting in cars with strangers, that we know to be true. Even my 12yr old knows it is trouble. Conclusive evidence of rape vs consentual sex? dont know, seizures? dont know. Why is she this saint? Was this trip no more than a spring break? How disappointed her parents must feel about her decisions. How scared she must have been at the end. A lesson to young girls on what not to do.

  49. truth Says:

    Just amazing… couldn’t be about international relations hey always the race card is what keeps racism going.

  50. joanneha Says:

    I just came back from vacation from Aruba. It’s still alarming to see so many young girls going to the island looking for fun. Many of the older and married ladies vacationing there kept warning these girls. Looking back many of us have done things that we never should have thought of doing. But Natalie should have never lost her life. I went to the lighthouse and prayed for her and her family. The lighthouse had beer caps all over so it’s an obvious hang out for the locals. It’s very secluded and miles away from anything. Joran might have initially left her, but he had to have gone back to dispose of her body. There is no way that she could have made it back to town or that far in her condition and or they would have found the body. The island really isnt that big. We managed to drive the island and stop at the sites within a day. I pray that the family is able to live some sort of life and that they hopefully will get closure one day. It must be the hardest thing not knowing.

  51. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Joanneha*, Thanks for Sharing this with us. Through your Description of your Travels on the Island, I was able to Visualize and gain a better Perspective on the “Layout” of things associated with Natalie’s Presence there. I am Touched by your Saying a Prayer at the Lighthouse. I gather it must have been a very
    Strange, perhaps even Eerie, Solemn feeling at that Spot, and looking-out over the Water. I do Hope your Prayers were Heard. I continue to Hope and Pray myself that somehow, someday, the “Cover-up” will be Un-covered, the Braisen, Lying, Cowardly Low-Life will get His Day, Natalie’s Family’s Torture can end, and Natalie can finally Rest in Peace.

  52. +1 Karma Says:

    I don’t understand why everyone is crucifying KARMA. All they are trying to say is that obviously the parents were too easy on her and that she made a stupid mistake. KARMA isn’t saying they deserved to die, rather that it was partly her mistake for being dumb enough to go with strangers, its the world we live in she should know that. The people that are so upset about this are all southern wackjobs.

  53. Gabby Says:

    I think it is sad what happened to Natalee Holloway is very sad. I mean I saw the movie on lifetime movie network and it was really interesting and enjoyable but I still think that people are sick today with what they do to teenagers. It is also her fault.She is the one who got drunk then drove away with those crazy mexican dudes. I feel bad her mom told her not to do anything crazy but she still didn’t listen. It is crazy and stupid what teenagers are doing these days they are just asking to die with drugs or alcohol poisoning. They need to stop they are very very stupid and insucar because they are actually killing themselves and nobody else:/

  54. gabby Says:

    I love Joey Lajcaj and Marino Shammami:)

  55. Fantasy Says:

    Okay.. Karma and Tim. Also, anyone else who strongly believes that this young girl “deserved” it. If you hadn’t heard, or just woke up from a coma. They think the date rape drug was added to Natalie’s drink. (They were at a night club.) Guess what those kinds of drugs do to a person? Just guess. The drugs used to facilitate rape (date rape drug) may have sedative, hypnotic, dissociative, and/or amnesiac effects, and may be added to a food or drink without the victim’s knowledge. Many assailants (The boys) use alcohol because their victims (Natalie in this case) often willingly imbibe it (Again. WERE. AT. NIGHT. CLUB.), and can be encouraged to drink enough to lose inhibitions or consciousness. Explaining why she passed out, as the young boys said in their statements, that she had passed out at some point. And, to the “it was still stupid of her” or “her parents were too easy”, and “stranger danger”. She was soo drunk (My sister is like this when she gets drunk), plus the result of the drug made her do a stupid thing. As in “stupid thing” getting in a car with three strangers. She had no idea what she was doing at the time.

  56. Ya I think it has been an apsolute horrid situaiton. It really makes me reflect upon my life and how greatful I am to be safe and have a wonderful family.
    God bless the holloway family

  57. michelle wv Says:

    God will deal with her killer.

  58. michelle wv Says:

    I have watched the news on this since it happened. God will deal with the guilty.

  59. michelle wv Says:

    God with deal with the guilty.

  60. JAM Says:

    Everyone needs to think about what the parents are going through.Yeah if it was my kid i would never let her go that far without an adult going with them,but i’m pretty sure the parents already know they made a wrong choice by letting her go, and now they are living with that pain. Which is probably the worst thing any parent can go through. It dont matter if you are a teen or an adult, everyone has made mistakes.I am sure their are girls of all ages that has gotten drunk and got in the car with strangers before and come home safe or was not killed,and yes their are girls of all ages that didn’t come back just like natalie. So to say she was wrong, im not to sure i would say that, b/c it probably didnt seem possible to think they would kill her. This world is so messed up you shouldnt have to worry about getting in a car with people you barely know and something bad happen. But no one can change all the bad people. We know there will always be that kind of people out there.For anyone to say that natalie is to blame also is wrong. How about the police or the goverment trying to do more to the people that can do horrible things like this. Its not just aruba its the whole world. As for Joran and anyone else that was with him, whether they killed her or just left her when she was in need of medical attention they are sorry low lifes,and eventually they will get what is coming to them. Just remember that saying “WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!!!” This is really true i have seen it happen quite a few times.It might be tomorrow or 50 years down the road but it will come back to him and everyone who was involved. I mainly just wanted to let some of you know that yall need to have some respect and quit blaming natalie and her parents(like her parents dont have enough pain and guilt that they will have to live with for the rest of their life)and start blaming the ones that killed her or left her to die, and also the police for not doing everything possible to find out who did this.The least they could do is give her family some closure and let them know where her body is so she can have a proper burial.Im sorry but i would not be able to live with myself if i done something like that, but thats me. My heart goes out to natalie’s parents and family. My thoughts and prayers are with yall always.To natalie’s parents “Yall need to know that we know yall loved her very much, and also yall need to know that atleast everyone knows yall did everything possible to get justice for her.Its not yalls fault the police and goverment wont look at the evidence that is right in front of them and do the right thing. I hope and pray one day yall will get closure.”!!!

  61. Anonymous Says:

    ur an idiot just like the creepy murderer. pig. god help u.

  62. vivica Says:

    its sad i pray every night that she comes back to her mommy and daddy i hope she is living her life and not realy dead i hope mom dad that you see her come back in your dreams ok ill pray hard so she will come back

  63. K Says:

    This makes me absolutely sick. I don’t understand how someone can be so cold-hearted. She was 18 years old, at the prime of her life, and some useless CHILD had take it from her. And even after admitting it, he receives no consequences… What is this world coming to….

  64. K Says:

    Ok so I just read a bit of what “KARMA” had to say after I had already written my first message. You are obviously a WORTHLESS HUMAN BEING. How can you sit there and say what you have said??? People like you are just as useless and pathetic as the assholes who did what they did to Natalee. You are obviously just as sick in your head to think it is ok for doing what they did..”oh dont blame the guys, blame the “slutty girl.” Please. Give me a break. That girl was just trying to celebrate and have fun with 100 other people she was graduating high school with and ended up running into a selfish worthless piece of shit human being. Believe it or not, the majority of people in this world are GOOD PEOPLE, its a rarity to come across someone without any kind of heart or soul in this world. I am an ARMY wife so trust me, I KNOW what kind of people are out there, I live every day worrying and wondering, and I can guarantee I know a HELL of alot more than you do about how people operate. So DONT YOU DARE put the blame on that innocent girl just trying to have fun and celebrate a huge step in her life. Natalee, you and your family will continue to be in my prayers.

  65. Honeydog0629 Says:

    THANK YOU *Fantasy*, *Jam*, and *K* for your Deep Insight, which, unfortunately, is not an Ability possessed by everyone. It’s like “Beating a Dead Horse” trying to make them See and Understand what they don’t See and can’t Understand. We’re all certainly Entitled to our Differences in Opinions, but I have to feel Sorry for those who are just so Incapable of the OVERALL “Analytical Process” that an Incident like this Commands and Deserves. Want to mention, specifically to *Jam*, that Natalie’s Trip to Aruba WAS in Fact “Supervised” by numerous Adults. She, nor any of the other Girls in her Group, was not Un-accompanied. To *Michelle wv*… We Hope so, and we’re Waiting for it.

  66. gabriella napoli Says:

    You will come to a point in your life where you have worn so many “shoes.”that it will become impossible for you to point the finger at anyone else for often you will see that you or someone you love more often then not has made the same choice for A MILLON UNBELIEVABLE REASONS as you venture through so many years of living. Karma must be young and very inexpirienced. Natalies poor mother will have a broken heart All her life she did nothing to bring this on NOTHING AT ALL! pray for her.

  67. gabriella napoli Says:

    Reading over what I wrote before I feel it may be necessary to explain my wording a bit more least in this case, God forbid, I am misunderstood. To be young, carefree, it is a beautiful time. This child did nothing that we ALL haven’t done (myself included) Evil people, self serving cowards, were lying in wait for her and they are ones that should be condemed and spoken harshly about. This beautiful young girl was just having fun! Neither Natalie or her mother deserve anything but kind words if you can not speak with civility then please say nothing at all! Karma, do you not think everyone knows “stranger danger”? Why do you feel the need to bring it up ,should we give you a big star for being all knowing? Do you not see how childishly obvious you are? Your words are VERY hurtful, you must know that. Education means NOTHING without common sense, you may have earned 10 Degrees from the most prestigous of our universities but without common sense you will open your mouth and be condemed a fool you will go to explain your position and people will hear you as stupid and, or callous, as in your case. Karma(both of you)need to shut-up.

  68. wutdahec Says:

    Can’t believe that there has been no arrest in this case maybe cause it happen on a island but if it would had happen in the states oh for sure somone would have got arrested my prayers go out to her family an wish the worst for her killers even after they have it on tape an they don’t arrest him get the fuck out of here who did they pay who did they threaten everyone knows money talks

  69. Karma Says:

    IM BACK!!! WOW all the beautiful comments for me… Well i read through all of your comments and i want to thank the few that actually read my comments and realized that i never said that she deserves to be raped and murdered but she does have her own responsibilities in this. as far as honeydog you are so offended by what i say Why? and by the way i do not proof read my writing nor do i care to this is not an essay writing contest so as far as my education goes i am not throwing it around saying it plays a roll in crime i was stating it for my hateclub stating that i was a low life and not educated.i do agree about the common sense though so why are you telling me about common sense but arguing the fact that i was saying for nataly to have some. Fantasy you really need to read what i have written and not just go off of honeydogs writing he puts alot into my writing that is not there. I pray for your sister that is the same way and i hope by what you know of nataly she doesnt end up the same way. Instead of just watching your sister and relating her to nataly i hope you show her what her life may lead up to… so 2 things if you say you havent told your sister about where her life may lead her then i feel sorry she doesnt have a good sister and if you have then you agree with me and just dont want to admit it. So i apologize to those who thought i got served by Karma in a bad way the total opposite happened thats why i have been gone for a while i was going through some finals for my nursing stuff. That is by the way the reason for my comments i see this everyday a young girl coming in having something happened to her and the parents come in 2 hrs later wasted wondering why? in my head i say because while you are getting hammered your child has taking your example and thinks she wants the same of her life so she goes with any man who will love her at the time and then we have these situations. Then the general public has a large out cry of questions and tears…. Yes i blame her parents and her. and in this situation the parents are to busy with their lifes and wanting to be a friend they wonder why when they let their 17 yr old daughter go to a place where they know no one at all and she goes missing a rich kid is able to get away with something like this…i place most the blame on the mother this is true not because i am biased but because fathers fall for any of there daughters croc tears, the mothers job is to protect there children from harm and any of you that know the story know that the father said no nataly’s mother pressured the father into letting her go he did not want to sign the papers to let her go on this trip the mother was being to much of a friend and neglected her duties so yes i blame the mother. also those who say she was slipped a drug that may be true but if she was never there in the first place this wouldnt have happened… no i am not saying we all have capabilities of knowing the future and oh she knew it was gooing to happen and still went through with it.. your scenario (your underage in a place where you know no one only the 5 friends you traveled with you go to a club and start drinking a lil you get up to go to the bathroom. do u take your drink with you? you come back there are guys around your table…do u drink it? you feel wierd… do you follow the guys? do you get in their car? do you happily wave to your friends? ok well if you answered yes to any of those questions do you not think you are pressing your luck just a bit.The rape drug has been around for quiet a while so its not like oh wow there is this thing out there that guys could put in my drink and possibly take advantage of me. and of course the boys are to blame as well my point has never been that the boys are angels or need to be let off it has simply been to stop letting the young girls of todays society off the hook just because something wrong was done to them. Girls today think nothing can happen to them they can get drunk or just go freely any where they please and sadly in todays world it is not the case. Girls get stupid and think just because the drink nothing counts and nothing is their fault because oh lol i was so wasted last night i dont know what happened….WEll all of a sudden a girl has be held responsible for her actions sadly she has paid the ultimate price but its a price she must have at least thought of once at any time in her life sorry but no one is that naive in life to think this is a perfect world with no flaws and no if a girl is coming from work or gets pulled out of her car is she asking for it honeydog… sorry i know you would have some statement to say oh karma now girls that are raped in public have their own fault… but in nataly’s situation she was traveling underage drinking (her friends admitted it so im not saying that) and going to clubs (stated before) sorry at 17 you should be at home with a curfew. so again i ask which one of you would allow your kids to do the same. Anyone??? yeah i didnt think so and if you say you would you are saying so just for the sole purpose of an argument. So like i was always saying one sacrafice for the betterment of the majority is needed and in this case all girls need to stop being stupid and be aware of there surroundings no i dont need a metal for reminding anyone of stranger danger but sometimes that needs to be stated so some can take it in and acknowledge there is reasons why things are said. one person stated i should be locked up with those guys that did this i laugh at you im not stupid enough to put myself in the position to be in a car with them.Why wouls i have any reason to be in a cell with the either. Why do you guys insist on saying or poor this and poor that but when you faced with someones view on a website you dont agree with your moral Statements turn and sound like those you through stones at.K your an army mans wife so u do know the reality of this world correct ??you do not want me to place the blame on that innocent drunk girl fine then answer me this would you go to a club and get in a car with all males? honest answer please… now with that answer in mind would you let your daughter go to a place Where you cannot get to her fast? Would you let her go and hope that she would try the same thing??? Oh why not? is it because you have heard this story already or because you have always known this??? So as much as you hate to admit i am right…. Celebrating a big step in her life ha when will people realize graduation from high school does not mean kids are grown to do as they please you still need to parent them. And why would i want to take a walk in others shoes? i have my own and prefer to make footprints with those i can push others shoes to the side and if i can faintly gather on the places they have been thats enough for me to know where to watch my step..

  70. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Blah..Blah..Blah..Blah..Blah…. My GOD, Get OVER it! By the looks of all the above, seems YOU’RE the one who’s “Offended”, and can’t Quit until you’re Pacified. Think what you want, Say what you will, Stick by it, State that you’re “Right”, whatever Empowers you— it’s a Free Country— and, speaking for all who Disagree, WE’LL Stick to what WE Believe.

  71. Honeydog0629 Says:

    PS: Don’t accuse *Fantasy* of “Going off of my Comments”. I’m sure *Fantasy*— and everyone else here— uses their own Mind and takes the Stand they themselves personally Believe-in. By you’re telling *Fantasy* that they “Really need to read what you’ve written”, you’re acting as though they didn’t. Just because the majority of Posters on this Subject don’t Agree with you, doesn’t mean they don’t know enough on their own, or are “Influenced” by my— or anyone else’s— Opinion here. Everyone most certainly came-up with their own Conclusions.

  72. Karma Says:

    Well obviously some did not in other comments people have gone off others statements just reading the last couple of comments.
    Honeydog0629 Says:

    May 24, 2009 at 10:43 pm

    “Ashley”, you misinterpreted “Vidkid’s” Comment….
    He was MOCKING “Karma”, NOT Agreeing.

    point and case not all people read from the beginning though i do believe in people being able to come up with their own ideas, some just take one comment and run with it.And very true about the free country thats why i have my opinion on the matter. and nope im not offended at all there just comments.

  73. W Wibinski Says:

    Reading through this on a morning where I was unable to sleep brought many things to light. Like a lot of comment trails, this one becomes laden with personal attacks that take away from the focus of the article. Let’s not forget, a young woman is missing and likely dead. Is it her FAULT that she is dead? Of course not. Did she make errors in judgement? Of course she did. Did others make mistakes too? Absolutely. I have children, boys and girls. They are good kids and have shown good judgement in their lives. There has been occasion where they have shown poor judgement as well. But let us not loose focus on the tragic event. This person should not be DEAD because they decided to drink. They should not be DEAD because they went off in a car with some people they had only recently met. I say DEAD because unfortunately after 4 years, that’s the likely outcome. It’s horrible that Jaron has made so many different claims as to what happened as well. God shall give final judgement. We should just pray that the family is able to cope with the loss in such a way that they don’t lose their faith. You don’t get over the loss of a child, you get to a point where you cope with it.

  74. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Karma*, you have no “Point and Case”…. How the hell do you Confuse someone MIS-INTERPRETING a Comment, with Concluding— and you’re SO sure– that they didn’t read it through. Can’t you stop Picking, and Assuming that you know what the others here do or don’t do, and just Let it BE. And People don’t keep springing-back with Blame and Defense at each and every little thing if they’re not Offended and/or have the need to turn it around. I’M only here again because I noticed someone different had Posted and was interested in their Thoughts… and there you were… still on a Mission to point-out that people here weren’t “Thorough” enough to your Liking. This isn’t a JOB we’re performing…. There aren’t any RULES. Whatever Comments and Conclusions have been made are what they WANTED. You really need to try to Accept this in its Truth and Simplicity, no matter HOW they reached it— Taking-in Word-for-Word, or otherwise. That’s THEIR Choice. In the end, it’s still what they Decided, and chose to Say. I myself am now Reflecting on *W Wibinski’s* nice Comment above and the Good and Well-taken Points you make, still Praying for Natalie and her Family, and Hoping and Waiting for the Justice they all Deserve.

  75. Kelley Says:

    How anyone can know of this story and feel anything but discusted by what Karma said, is unbelievable. Why are you focusing so much on what Natalie and her mother did instead of what Joran did? Yes maybe she did not have the best judgement but should that have gotten her killed? NO! This young girl should still be alive in college or working. She should be living!No one sends thier child off with their whole class thinking that they will never come back. Natalie did nothing to deserve this and for anyone to suggest otherwise is stupid. This is about finding out what really happened and bringing the guilty to justice.I have read all of the comments left and Karma you really sound like a crazy person.

    My prayers are with the Holloway family.

  76. Gladys Says:

    Karma! U r a fuckin bitch! I have no other words to say I bet u r a ugly bitch! I honestly think u just said all that shit becase no guy fuckin wants to touch ur ugly ass lol so hope u stop talking shit!

  77. paige Says:

    omg im so srry wat happen to her ill pray everyd to hope dat she is found all u ned is jesus and he will help u find a way

  78. vidkid Says:

    Jordan will get what’s coming to him… just wait and see! :}

  79. Honeydog0629 Says:

    I STILL like what you said in your Comment on June 16th above— Wish you COULD have 5 Minutes with him!

  80. angel Says:

    I am a mother of 3 girls and I can’t imagine what Natalie’s parents are going through. Not knowing what happened to your child or not knowing where she is would be enough to kill me. How can they even try and heal without any type of closure. Some people just don’t have a clue…. You can’t go on not now or ever without knowing where your child is. All the bull really should stop (karma). Noone knows what it is really like until they are there… God bless all who care and the Holloway Family….

  81. LUCY Says:

    First of all, at the age of 17, you shouldn’t be drinking and having sex. As for Natalie, may God rest her soul and may her killers be found and brought to justice but don’t act as if she had nothing to do with her disappearance. No, i don’t totally agree with Karma but I will say, we were all raised to not talk to strangers and how to be a lady. A true lady, regardless of the age, wouldn’t be intoxicated in public at the age of 17. A true lady wouldn’t be making out and having sex with some random strangers she just met no more than 30 minutes ago. Things happen and God works in mysterious ways, but this is horrible. Again, I will say, this shouldn’t be solely blamed on the males, yeah, I know they were raised better than that, but they’re not all the blame. Sure, if something was wrong with her they should’ve contacted the police insted of disposing of her body but don’t ever get half of the story and run to the wind. The stories on tv make it seem as if she were this nice, repsectable, smart young lady. If she were all of that, she’d be back home attending college, not missing and trying to figure out where she is. If she were such an angel, she would’t have been indulging in sexual activities and drinking undeage. The media is making it seem that the country of Aruba is a horrible place and that they have horrible citizens, this always happens. Students go on trips away from their country and don’t know how to act. Blame that on their parents, who didn’t raise them well enought to know how to act when they leave their house. Every year someone comes up missing on vacation and for what, because they’re drunk and aren’t wise enough to understand that just because they have money or just because they’re on vacation, they don’t have to be careful. As I come to a close, I could care less of the opinons coming behind my posting because the truth is, regardless of where you are from, how you were raised,or skin colors, you have to think for yourself at all times, after the age of 17, I’m sure you don’t need a babysitter. I’m sure you know what’s right or wrong and I’m sure you know enough about sex.

    God Bless.

  82. Broccoli Says:

    Wow, I didn’t see anyone point out that probability that Natalie was DRUGGED via the date-rape drug, and was probably why she went so willingly with this boy, something she may not do otherwise.

    -her friends commented that Natalie had one drink and was immediately intoxicated and acting weird. That typically happens with the date rape drug.

    -VanderSloot insinuated in his taped ‘confession’ to a friend that she died due to an overdose of this drug and had a friend dump her body at sea.

    If this is true…than Natalie Holloway was a victim of a very calculated rapist, and from his rap sheet of other women who claimed to have been assaulted by him, he was quite good at what he did. A 17 year-old kid who grew up in the sheltered suburbs would be no match.

    Karma, and those like her who are so quick to judge this kid for being stupid, or having sex, or drinking or whatever, please don’t always assume the worst about people. I knew a person who met a man at a bar and was chatting with him. She woke up the next morning naked and alone in a hotel room. She immediately went to the hospital where it was discovered she had been drugged. It was so effective, she couldn’t remember anything about that night, or even the person she had met, so no one was ever caught or charged with her rape. She was 25, educated and not some dippy girl impressed by a cute guy. She simply was talking to someone, and must of turned her attention away from her drink long enough for him to slip her the drug. This can happen to anyone.

    Holloway was murdered, and the boy responsible for it will likely never be prosecuted due to Aruba’s sorry excuse for a police department, and the fact that Joran’s father is a judge, and has money and power. Have some compassion or ‘Karma’ may come back on you with your own children some day.

  83. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *BROCCOLI*…. Thanks for sharing that misfortunate, but very Informative, Story. I maintain my Faith that, at some point, some Day, those of us who support the deserved-Conquering of Joran van der Sloot’s belief in his “Invincibility” will see it in abundance.

  84. DIna Says:

    I myself have been intrested in this case and i loved the movie that was played on lifetime. i did a lot of research and i tryed getting in contact with her family. but i think this poor girl was killed and dumped into the sea on the other side of the island beacuse half of the island is a vicational side and the other half is deserted and the ocean is filled with sharks so the body was probably dumped in the sea and by the time she was pronouned missing the sharks probably had ate her body so there is really no trace of her or her body.. now am not saying this is what happend but probably what could of have happened.i really do not know how can any human being do this to anyone. and this peice of shit Of a person under the name of karma is a total idiot beacuse you shouldn’t have wrote what you did am sure you are some idiot who could care less about anyone or anything but imagine if this was your child or someone you know or maybe even you yourself.. come on now

  85. Karma Says:

    lol yeah im an idiot but your kidding yourself if you think she was doing the right thing .I do blame the men for what happened but at the same time you cant let girls get away with their stupid actions. ok yes she may have been drugged we all know that and im sorry for broccilis friend that sux but like broc said she was just talking at some spot. nataly however was in a place she shouldnt have been doing things she shouldnt be doing, i Have never stated that people that get raped or get killed deserve it i simply state people over react to the situations that happen because girls do stupid shit and think its ok and some learn a valuable lesson. Others hear these stories about them and are smart enough to look around and try to stop it from happening to them. SO yes i still do blame her and the mother and some may call me an idiot but ill ask you a question will any of you do or let your child do the same thing that this girl did???? no hmmm wonder why maybe its because you agree with me and learned something from this story?!!! And i am far from being quick to judge i just call it like it is…she was how old? where was she? why was she in a bar? What where her parents thinking? just that alone was enough and nothing had even happened to her yet. its not even about the death or rape its simply about the position she put herself into….no that doesnt mean that if your wearing a skirt in an allywayyou deserved to be raped to all those who will twist my words but would you put yourself in that circumstance if you didnt have to? thanks glady for your comment but keep the self projection to a min thank you. those who say karma will come back or what if this was my child ummm i think i made it very clear that at 17 my child will be under my roof where she belongs and i will teach he right and use this story as an example .

  86. zelda Says:

    My my…………all the opinions are interesting . They all have a point even if we don’t agree.
    I can still remember being 17………man we were stupid.It’s just the way it is at that stage of the game.No excuses……….however.
    Van der Sloot is a real piece of work.I am sure he killed her. He’s a bastard.
    His parents taught him well.
    I agree that the sharks probably have all the evidence……….terrible.
    As a parent I would never ever let up on Joran.I’d dog him somehow his whole miserable life.
    These indulgent parents on both sides give me the creeps even though I sympathize with their loss.
    It’s just sad all the way around.

  87. joanne Says:

    i had a dream 2 weeks after her disapearance
    i was at a small pond or drainage area within sight of the lighthouse there were a few young men and an older man and also a man up above the area. the water was down an embankment and they (boys and older man ) were out in this water about knee deep. there was a hole dug ang they dropped natalie into this. the older man had said that this had to be done. they had shovels with them and a truck. she was facing the lighthouse. and to me appeared to be asleep.

    i’ve had a number of dreams where i’ve seen some things, then later have heard about those same things.

    how do you go about telling anyone if this is what had happened maybe this can be of help .

    the word of GOD says; that both good and evil falls on the just and unjust. my prayer is that you all know God . He will triumph.

  88. anonymous female Says:

    I’ve read through all the posts and my conclusion is that I don’t care to participate is this discussion. Hence, I’m posting my thoughts and probably won’t return to respond to any messages (if any) to what I say. It’s pretty ignorant to be name-calling back and forth and in doing so eliminates the opportunity to have any clear and respectful communication to at least a level of understanding with respecting each other’s thoughts, feelings, and/or beliefs. We are all different and come from many different cultures and environments, and beliefs.
    Without knowing, I suspect Karma to be in her early twenties based on the various remarks she’s made. In my opinion, there are many issues going on with this situation. One major issue(s) pertains to “ACCOUNTABILITY” and another with “COMMON SENSE”. Not everyone is born with common sense. In my opinion, Natalie’s parents used poor judgment in allowing their daughter to go out of the country especially with Natalie still being a minor. Since they did, I’m wondering where the Chaperone’s were??!!! … Obviously not doing their job!!…Or at the very least, not enforcing rules for accountability that Natalie didn’t need permission to leave the bar without having a friend with her!!! Any school function I’ve ever been on, the rule was to always have a “buddy” with you and to NEVER go anywhere alone!! Hence, poor judgment on Natalie’s part. I am a mother of two boys. I didn’t appreciate the remarks made about what the boys would and/or wouldn’t do or say. I know I’ve worked and devoted my life to raising two young men that were gentlemen to young ladies. But, as my grandmother once told me, a woman spends a lifetime raising her young boys to become men, and it only takes a second for one girl/woman to ruin all that he is/was!!! Being as old as I am now, I’ve come to realize just how true that statement is!!! I’m not sticking up for either side here, i.e. Natalie’s or all those boys. It is what it is. I know girls at that age can be a tease and I know boys hormones at that age are busting out of their bodies. Until the body’s been found, no one knows if a date-rape drug was used. So all the accusations in the world doesn’t mean anything. Too, given the length of time since this incident happened, 4 years plus, all that would be found in my opinion is bones at this point. Any evidence of date-rape drug would be gone I would think, but not sure if forensic science can detect any of that in the bones.
    I have to agree with one area that Karma stated with Natalie putting herself into this situation. In my opinion, she placed herself into this situation the second she agreed to go with the boys ALONE!! However, this in no way is to be misconstrued as any more than that! I’m sorry she’s not been found and for any tragedy she may have encountered. And I’m sorry for the pain and suffering her parents have had to endure because of it.
    Another issue I see is the cultural differences. The laws are VERY different in Aruba than those imposed upon us here in the U.S. We are very spoiled here in the U.S. with having a lot of laws for making citizens being accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, the same is not true in Aruba, or in many, many other countries. Not only is it important to know the spoken language of the country you’re visiting, but also the laws of the land for the country to which you’re visiting. Unfortunately, we’ve all witnessed through various forms of news media (TV, newspapers, internet, etc.) the way Aruba conducts matters with hiding evidence, or hushing witnesses, and letting suspects go free. In my opinion, there was a HUGE coverup. I tend to think the gov’t there and Joran’s father being a lawyer in Aruba did some cabitzing of sorts. I’m not sure exactly how it was worded as it’s been some time gone by now, but I recall something Joran’s father stated to the effect of, “no body, no crime”. I am of the opinion that he helped his son with that end. I think a lot of “information” was hushed because the Aruban country gets a lot of dollars from the U.S. and the bad publicity would deminish those dollars and tourism. The U.S. is a huge revenue maker in tourism for Aruba.
    Another issue I see is that the authorities are not as well trained as those in the U.S., and another is that they are corrupt in the way they handle things and continuing to handle things “quietly” to not cause dissention that would interrupt their tourist revenues.
    Sorry folks, I don’t think the level of education one possesses has anything to do with the actual discussion with what happened to Natalie Holloway. Each of you have more or less stated your levels of education, what your parents allowed or disallowed you to do, and expressed your opinions of whether you felt Natalie deserved what she got or not.
    I earned my MBA/ACC degree. Big deal. That has no relevance on the topic discussion.
    No, my father would never have allowed me to go to Aruba. Heck, when I was 17, I had a curfew to be by 10:00pm on the weekend. During the week, don’t even ask to go out on a school night!!
    This brings up my next point.
    Natalie was from a broken home with her parents being divorced and her father and mother both remarried. Sometimes that in itself can play a huge role in the level of restrictions placed or not placed upon a child in an effort to make the new family situation work. Yes, poor judgment calls are sometimes made in the process. Those of you that do have children know all too well that each child is different with some accepting a great deal of responsibility and displaying a great deal of maturity for the age than others. None of us lived in Natalie’s family so it’s rediculous to speculate exactly what factors were present or not present with her mother and stepfather, with her father and stepmother, or with Natalie herself. Who knows? Maybe Natalie’s parents have actually painted an entirely different portrait than what was actual or factual. I mean, maybe Natalie couldn’t wait to leave home?!! None of us know this.
    I will say that no female asks for something like this to happen. No female asks to be kidnapped or raped.
    Out of all this crap I’ve read, I still have the same question, “How come no one has mentioned Natalie trying to call one of her girlfriends?” Almost all kids today have a cell phone and are addicted to texting eachother. Why have we not heard anything about that?
    I really think there’s a lot more information the public hasn’t been told about. And I think Natalie’s friends know a lot more than what they’ve said as well as Joran and his family.
    In my opinion, there’s still way too many unanswered questions and the investigations that have been performed thus far, in my opinion, have all been botched. Aruba is a “party-tourist place”. Things are alot more “looser” than what we’re accustomed to here in the U.S. Things that are not allowed in the U.S. are allowed in Aruba. And visa versa with things allowed in Aruba would never be allowed here in the U.S.
    Ya’ll need to stop pointing fingers and name calling at each other and start looking at the facts presented to us. We each have a right to our own opinions and should be respecting each other’s opinions, … Even if they are ignorant to a degree due to immaturity, inexperience, or whatever. Just maybe, … Just maybe in the course of having a respectful discussion, maybe someone has an idea or thought that hasn’t been mentioned or thought of, yet. There are still many that still hold a lot of hope for Natalie to be found. I am one of those that still prays for her to be found, if for nothing else, … For some much needed closure for her parents… No matter how right or wrong their decisions may have been by them or by Natalie.
    Some of you have voiced very closed-minded remarks, and some quite hostile, I thought, … As well as disrespectful and inconsiderate of each other’s opinion(s).
    We all raised differently. Each of us has a set of values (hopefully) that have been instilled in us by our parents (hopefully). Some of us have a stronger or more rigid set of values than others. Some of us have chosen to live entirely differently than the way our parents taught us. If you’re going to have a discussion about any subject, the first thing or “rule” is to respect each other’s opinions even if you flat out disagree.
    My prayers will continue for Natalie or her remains to be found. That will be a glorious day, indeed!!!!

  89. Cindy is no good grandma Says:

    Vandershit is responsible and he should be behind bars. Boycott Aruba!

  90. Angela C. Sessa Says:

    I am watching the story on LMN with my daughter, who is thirteen and two of her friends.
    I feel all growing girls should see this, as well as gr

  91. Angela C. Sessa Says:

    growing men. This is so sad and I hope one day Natalie’s family will find out the truth.

  92. Mitchelle Says:

    First of all let me give a big shout out to Karma. You are 100% correct. Dont mind all those people calling you names. They are simply mad because the truth hurts. The fact is that Natalie made a mistake, and yes we understand that she was young and Naive, but sometimes in life you make mistakes that cost you your own life, unfortunately. Everyone makes mistakes, nobody is perfect, thats why you have to try and not make mistakes that will be as expensive as Natalie’s case. The fact is that she got in that car willingly. She should not have done it. You cant keep blaming the men who did that to her, they just saw a girl who was willing to let herself lose, and took adavantage of it. They didnt force her at all. What they did was wrong, no doubt about that.And they should be punished for it!!! But the fact is, thats the kind of world we live in. So its up to us to be careful and make the right choices. And as for the parents, try raise your kids to the very level best you can. God knows My parents would never have let me take some trip to Aruba at 17 with my friends,that was even out of the question. My prayers go to her parents….

  93. Mitchelle Says:

    First of all let me give a big shout out to Karma. You are 100% correct. Dont mind all those people calling you names. They are simply mad because the truth hurts. The fact is that Natalie made a mistake, and yes we understand that she was young and Naive, but sometimes in life you make mistakes that cost you your own life, unfortunately. Everyone makes mistakes, nobody is perfect, thats why you have to try and not make mistakes that will be as expensive as Natalie’s case. The fact is that she got in that car willingly. She should not have done it. You cant keep blaming the men who did that to her, they just saw a girl who was willing to let herself lose, and took adavantage of it. They didnt force her at all. What they did was wrong, no doubt about that.And they should be punished for it!!! But the fact is, thats the kind of world we live in. So its up to us to be careful and make the right choices. And as for the parents, try raise your kids to the very level best you can. God knows My parents would never have let me take some trip to Aruba at 17 with my friends,that was even out of the question. My prayers go to her parents….

  94. smartazzu Says:

    Karma: Do the world a favor and get lost on some other site. Perhaps 2 miles off the coast of Aruba might do. Your thoughts, words or anything you could possibly say are not welcome here. Natalie’s family and friends don’t need to read or even know that there is someone out there like you suggesting it is Natalie’s fault she was killed or left to die.

    Your so proud of your statements that you won’t even retract them for the family’s sake. Instead, your backpeddling trying to justify what you said.

    You truly are a worthless person with an opinion NO ONE wants to hear.

  95. […] on Peter R. de Vries ofcorse) This is the video tape were the world is waiting for. Watch it NOW! Natalie Holloway's Body Believed Found in Aruba Kreuzer's Korner Mar 20, 2009 … I noticed that a Natalie Holloway movie is being shown on Lifetime and I […]

  96. Diane Gordon Says:

    Whether or not Natalee died from untreated alcohol poisoning or harm inflicted by her male companions, several people failed Natalee before her demise. The group of students she was with were unchaperoned in a Caribbean tourist town. Huh? This is insane. My daughter goes to an intense college that’s highly selective and the kids are serious and hard-working. Yet many of them drink like fish all weekend. During a college sponsored party, someone spiked the drinks with Everclear, a grain alcohol that is 95 proof. One drink, and my daughter almost passed out walking back to her dorm. I am sure there had been serious drinking with this crowd in Aruba.
    I can’t imagine how the parents allowed this to happen.
    I’m a pretty permissive parent, and can’t imagine letting my kid go on a trip like this. It was an accident waiting to happen. Even if Natalee were fortunate enough to be brought to a hospital, she still may not have survived. It’s difficult enough to prevent kids from binge drinking. When they’re on a Caribbean island, in a party atmosphere, far from family and too close to lots of bars, it’s a prescription for disaster. I wonder what genius planned this trip that killed Natalee.

  97. […] Holloway Found in Aruba. Broward Palm Beach news, blogs, music, movies, restaurants and the arts. Natalie Holloway's Body Believed Found in Aruba Kreuzer's Korner According to multiple sources, a cadaver dog has been flown to Aruba today as authorities believe […]

  98. Karma Says:

    smartazzu : i dont backpeddle on what i am saying i say it a strongly stand by it. and again read my comments and see that i do blame her as well as her parents and of course the guys but my point is simply you cant just blame one person. there are sad situations where a person like diane’s kid that get hurt when they were doing right and just crossed some bad person path. then there are those that stick their hand in the fire and people cry that they got burned. So if you can honestly tell me that you would let your kid or someone you loved be in that same situation i would like to know why? your saying what i state is wrong right? Then would you allow your 17 yr old daughter to do the same if not the i am correct again your just to afraid to admit it

  99. rflo Says:


    I totally see your point, when the story first broke my thoughts were omg her parents let her go to another country? what kind of parents are they? then I said geez the girl got in the car with total strangers? why didn’t her friends stop her? but whats done is done and now I pray that they put that murderer away for life so that no one elses family will have to endure this pain.

  100. rflo Says:


    I think a lot of the negativity towards you are from people who like to think that it will never happen to them as for me I like to think always beware bacause anything can happen at anytime, I am sorry for the loss of Halloway but I do think that people need to take responsibility in the role they played, for example if she was escorted by her parents would this have happened or what if her parents had just said no way you are not going to another country. would this have happened, chances are thAT THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, so lets not hate on Karma because she is brave enough to tell it like it is.

  101. Dustin DeCesare Says:

    I am not much of a news person, so i never follow much on my local news. However i have listen to the stories researched the information and actually just got done watching the movie. I feel that the parents didnt do anything wrong by letting her go on the trip. Its terrible how this happened. I would love to stay informed on any information on this case and for anyone who would take the time to keep me up to date my email is Thank you! And to the family may god answer your prayers!

  102. After reading this, I am shocked. I saw the movie and I was like ‘Who could do that to such a sweet girl and not have any guilt?’ The guys who did this have no heart!!! If there’s any update or information, please email me at jerseygyal4lyfe@yahoo,com or For her family, I hope the answers will comw to your questions, thoughts and prayers!! GOD is always with you!!

  103. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Per *KARMA*: “You can’t let Girls get away with their Stupid Actions”… “Girls do Stupid Shit and think it’s Okay”… “It’s simply about the Position she put herself into”… “At 17, my Child will be under my Roof and I will Teach her right”……
    Let me say this, Karma— NO ONE KNOWS, least of all YOU, whether she was “Stupid” or not. If unknowingly she was given a “Drug”, she had NO CONTROL over ANYTHING, and please be Reminded, we DON’T know this. And, despite your absolute Positivity, the “Perfect” Child who would never, ever, “Spread their Wings” after they “Leave the Nest” does not Exist— unless you think that YOURS will be the First and Only.

    Per *ANONYMOUS FEMALE*: “Until the Body’s been found..all the Accusations in the World don’t mean anything”… “She placed herself into this Situation the second she Agreed to go with the Boys Alone”… “Poor Judgement on Natalie’s Part”……
    AGAIN, NO ONE knows, and, you’re CONTRADICTING yourself as you make your own “Accusations”.

    Per *MITCHELLE*: “The fact is that Natalie made a Mistake”… “The fact is that she got in that Car willingly”… “They didn’t Force her at all”… “You can’t Blame the Men who did that to her”……
    Again, I guess you were THERE to actually SEE this.
    And since when is ANY Individual NOT to “Blame” for Killing another Individual.

    It appears to me that, while the same People here say they are “not Blaming any one Person”, basically they are indeed, and FORGETTING that Tragedies like this happen every day— accross the Ocean AND across the STREET, with AND without the Best Parents, Upbringing, Intelligence, Judgement, AND Supervision, and that no matter WHAT the CIRCUMSTANCES, You don’t KILL someone and GET AWAY WITH IT— BOTTOM LINE!!!!
    You can Permit your Child to go to the Safest Place on Earth, but you WILL NOT CONTROL what can and does Happen, REGARDLESS of your “Expert Parenting”. To those of you who are “Pointing Fingers”, if YOUR Child befell Natalie’s Fate, tell me, what would you think and how would you feel THEN. I guarantee you, all your Comments would change in a HEARTBEAT. And there’s no “Bravery” on Karma’s part here for
    “Telling it like it Is”— only her Misconstrued Belief that— unless a Girl is a NUN, her Parents are Mary and Joseph, they never do ANYTHING Wrong, and never go ANYWHERE without the Donkey— being CRUCIFIED just WON’T Happen without an Understandable, Just, and Deserving Reason. And, of course, the Hands who do it can Wash them Clean. How very “Stupid”.

  104. Karma Says:

    Never once did i claim to be brave and i still think that stupid decisions should not be looked passed. again you point out the drugs ok so what maybe she was drugged but did they drug her to go to the bar? again i say no one person deserves to die but if someone does die everyone must learn at how to try to prevent the next one from happening. so what went wrong??? parents let underage child leave, underage child at bar, now the question of the drugs come in so if she was just drinking and being a “stupid” girl there was the next mistake. and no one child is perfect in no way am i thinking that my child will be the next Virgin Mary but i will be Damned if she leaves the country or drinks with my knowledge at 17 which is a fact. Her mother was so concerned with being a friend she forgot children dont need friends they need parents. so no i cant raise the only perfect child but if i allow my child to do the things i see parents do now a days i would mourn the loss of my child of course but would i be able to sit there and say what i did everyday of my life was protect my child …no i would not. there is no absolute even if your child is a nun to prevent them from harm but you can minimize their possibilities of running into easily avoidable known issues. like a man that wants to take advantage of a stupid girl in a bar. and before you go on to say some sad story of how ur friends sisters mothers cousin was 25 studying in the library and someone drugged her coffee remember that changes the situation she was : 17 ,out of the country, drinking and we are speaking on one subject. And never once did i say the men can wash their hands clean of this crime, all i say is we have to start taking responsibility for our actions and the consequences that come with them and not always be in the blaming society. Share the blame… by the way Mary and Joseph never had a child together. Mary was the mother of Jesus and Joseph was a good man that raised him as his own and Their SON was not a nun HE was a carpenter and a savior so please lets leave them out of this…

  105. Honeydog0629 Says:

    There are literally THOUSANDS of “Preditors” around ALL of us, in EVERY place, no matter Where. That’s a FACT— A Shopping Mall, the confines of your own Car, even being in your own Home— A Bar is NO more Dangerous than being in CHURCH anymore (Remember the Woman who was brutally Murdered at the ALTAR a while back!). Going to Aruba WAS a “Supervised Trip”, accompanied by numerous Adults and Teachers from Natalie’s School. If you think for one Second that her Parents simply Threw all Cautions to the Wind, and didn’t feel Trusting and Comfortable with it, I guarantee you, you’re WRONG. And who’s to Say that, if Natalie had even sat alone in her Hotel Room, the same Fate would not have found her. Don’t call her, or her Family STUPID. You yourself will put your own Child in Every-Day Danger by simply sending them to School, and even being in your own Back-Yard playing— and that’s WITHOUT any “Drinking” involved. And while you’re Preaching “Sharing the Blame”, I don’t hear you being so Tough on the Guy who took her Life, who is still walking-around with his Head held High. Who’s “Taking Responsibility” for HIS Actions, and where’s HIS Consequences!! It’s all One-Sided with you. Many, MANY, Parents are “Good” ones,
    “Responsible” and “Protective” of their Children— and Many, MANY Children are Good, Responsible Kids…… You, I, nor ANYone else, are “Untouchable” from Harm by anyTHING or anyONE, at any TIME, any PLACE, at ANY age. You get my Point…. whether you admit it or not.

  106. Honeydog0629 Says:

    P.S: I was Baptized, Raised, and Schooled in the Roman Catholic Religion. I’m quite aware of the Backgrounds of The Holy Family, thank you very much.

  107. Karma Says:

    yeah i get your point i got it a long time ago thats why i keep telling you bring it back to the subject at hand… you keep going off into safe zones and unsafe zones when we are talking about one place a bar where an underage girl was drinking and i have already said the guys are guilty and i believe they should be hung by their nuts but my point is if there are people that are going to be easy victims and make rapist jobs easier hey why not!!(and no thats not to say rapist are good people and they should have the time of their lives but im just saying from their point of view why not go for the stupid one you can weed out or that comes willingly) no im not untouchable i know that but why stick my neck out to make it easier to chop off? and although you may not think so I think there are places that are safer then others yes you can be hurt in any place but I know my home and back yard i know who i can have in my home and who id rather not. and i will say the mother and father acted as her friend and not a parent im not only saying that of her family any one who lets their child go supervised or not no one can and will protect your child like you will. so stop being a friend or a half ass parent and get involved dont just take the easy route. Just because you let them go and they are under someone elses supervision does not mean your not responsible.

  108. Honeydog0629 Says:

    I get YOUR Point as well— Don’t let your Children, at any Age, go Anywhere, at any Time, with anybody but yourself, and, stay out of Bars…. because you will be a “Half-Ass”, Irresponsible Parent if you do. I also suppose that countless reported Females, both Young and Old, who were sitting on their Sofas in their own Living Rooms in their own Homes, or simply “Snatched-up” at a Mall, were actually “Asking for It” and “Came Willingly” when a complete Stranger broke-into their Home, or Dragged them off, and Raped and Murdered them. You know the Saying, “Eat Healthy, Exercise, Die Anyway”?— Same Thing. I continue to Pray for the Soul of a Good, Decent, Bright Young Girl, and her confirmed VERY “Involved” Parents— ALL of whom did NOT “Deserve” this Act upon them— and for the Damnation of the Evil, Worthless, Low-Life Piece-of-Shit belonging to the ACTUAL “No-Good”, “Half-Ass”, “Irresponsible”, and “Un-involved” Parents in this whole entire Incident.

  109. Karma Says:

    lol oh my!! Once again you go to the stories of people that are not putting themselves in the same situation. Are you surprised when a hooker turns up dead as well?? i dont see you crying over them. No i am not saying lock your child up and throw away they key but hell yeah lock your child up until she is old enough to make her own decisions until then her ass is your and i dont care if you drag her ass by the hair and tell her no your not going to another country your ass is mine until your 18th bday then whatever stupid decisions you make are on you! See so many people are afraid to do the hard parenting you know that thing where you tell your kid no no hell no!! Like the old saying goes “if your child hates you, you have done your job!” (and please lets not branch that comment out on rapist fathers or abusive mothers) And yes at 17 i would not let my child go anywhere at any time and tell them stay out of bars. No family deserves to go through this by no means am i saying karma paid them back for something, but if people want to decrease their chances of becoming the next 17 yr old female “taken ” from a bar then they need to wake up and see the mistakes that did not need to be made to see this outcome. Its like watching a movie and yelling at Tv when you see this person put the selves in a situation and you tell the person next to you “oh wow i wonder where this is going?” The problem is little girls Think that its just a movie and nothing could happen to them so they make stupid decisions and go missing and people wonder why?? And with divorced parents trying to keep the love of their daughter make it easier for them to mess up they go all in…Then the devil in a good looking suit comes along and oh well you know the ending…

  110. shekinah Says:

    i hope they find her body and i will be praying for her and her family

  111. lena Says:

    i hope everybody knows that she got thriwn into the sea, and they even have a movie about her. also that one dude who she left with had put some achohol or drugs in her jiuce. so basically she was tricked!!!

  112. Karma Says:

    Lena????? wow no words…

  113. ellie Says:

    omgg thiss iz wrongg!theyy needd 2 findd jordan van der sloot an kill himm!itss all pointinn 2 himm!we all no he didd itt!an he fledd thee countryy 2,,go figuree!imm onlyy 14,,but evnn i no!!an iff he iz readinn thiss,,i hopee he feelss horrible!!i hopee he realizedd he madee a bigg mistakee!!i hopee he burnss inn hell!!!!iff u agree,,add me:

  114. Anonymous Says:

    so youre saying she gone missing i dont belive that asshole shite it is not real asshole fuck you

  115. Taken Says:

    I dnt understand why ppl always debate about situations they dnt knw about.Nobody knws what happened to Natalie but GOD and her killer(s)(if she was even killed)I definitly dnt agree with ppl who disrespect the dead(Karma etc)It is very wrong to say that Natalie’s death was deserved(if she’s dead).Regardless if she was old enuff to knw right frm wrong,she went to have fun.Isnt that normal when you take a trip? You go to enjoy yourself,taking a break frm whatever.Everyone needs a lil’ fun in their life.We never knw what the outcome may be.We just enjoy life the way it’s given.Personally,I dnt knw the true facts of what really happened,so i will not fault Natalie for her death.Honestly,I never believed she was murdered.I think she was drinking,having fun.Got sidetracked by attractive males,who may have portrayed themselves to be nice.They laced her drink with somethin’ she couldn’t handle,and was lured to a boat,and shipped to another country to be sold for sexual favors of the elite.That’s my opinion.I dnt knw.I say that because there’s no trace of her.Once you are sold,you will never be found.She could be anywhere in the world right now.She may be so drugged,til’ the point of not even knowing her identity.We dnt knw.It can go sooooo many ways ppl.Let’s not judge her for wanting to expand her herizon.I’ve been out of the country several times,and it’s simple to be lured into things.Especially as a woman.We can’t blame Natalie because she met some guys and wanted to hang out.Its not a problem with that.The only mistake Natalie made was not telling her friends where she was going.Had they known that before she left the bar,maybe they would’ve had a better lead.Further more,let’s not say she deserved to die.That’s not right.That’s very evil of a human to say such a thing.What if it happened to someone close to you? What if it were someone in your family? Would you make the same remark? Let me ansr that for you…..HELL NO!!! You would be very upset if your loved one took a trip,came up missing….and ppl start saying they deserved it.Put yourselves in Natalie’s family’s shoes.You ppl couldn’t possibly knw what her family is going through.When someone dies,or goes missing,you dnt have a clue what happened to them,it’s a long-life hurtful situation.You will never be @ peace without knowing the truth,you basically take it to the grave with you.Same thing for the deceased…their souls never rest until the truth is reveiled.To Natalie’s family,I have you in prayer.And i honestly hope you find out what really happened to Natalie,so you’ll be @ peace and be able to move on.I understand the void,unanswered questions,etc.May GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!!!!!

  116. Karma Says:

    If something did happen to my family and its something that others could learn from i would say the same things. I dont just say this against her i strongly believe that lil girls need to stop trying to grow up so fast and rushing into situations they cant control. So try not answering for anyone else if you dont know them. i would be one of those people to start one of those teen programs letting them know them know how to keep themselves out of danger and be ready for anything to happen. No i dont claim to know what her family is goin through and because of her hopefully i dont have to because i will use her as the person who went to an area she shouldnt be drank when she wasnt supposed to and made a stupid decision that she should have been tolod never to make and it cost her her life. and if my kids or family dont want to end up like her they will learn from her and not let their kids go somewhere alone underage… you said it was a vacation and it was to relax but ive been on plenty vacations and had fun im still alive… why because i listened to my parents and they never let me go to a bar or an area they were uncomfortable with. and no its not normal for me to go on a trip and go with a hand full of guys i dont know what kind of fun you have..

  117. OneOp Says:

    Would rather she found alive and well, but if not alive, I too, hope this is her. No matter where or what anyone is doing, unless they are a threat to another persons life, should they be killed. Murder is not protecting anyone’s lifeit is an out act of evil against an innocent.

  118. Shaka Says:

    Karma, your opinions are quite strong. You have a right to those as well as everyone who is attacking those opinions. I watched the movie last night and it seemed that Joran put the date rape drug into the shot he offered Natalie. Karma, you told everyone NOT to compare Natalie’s case to a server putting something into your drink earlier because it was not the same. However, it IS the same as a server drugging someone because Joran drugged Natalie. That date rape drug as well as alcohal obviously impaired Natalie’s rational thinking and judgement. I don’t believe Karma should be placing as much blame on Natalie and her mother as she is. A lot of girls went on that trip. Apparently, a lot of mothers and fathers approved of their 17 year olds to go. It just so happens that your parents wouldn’t approve of that trip, Karma. Yes, I can see your point. Yes, Natalie should not have gotten into that car. However, Natalie did not foresee any danger. By the end of the evening, Natalie did not see Joran as strangers. The circumstances surrounding Natalie are plain unfortunate. I feel for Natalie and her family. There are many family members who are not strangers who inflict as much harm as Natalie went through so your stranger arguement just doesn’t quite fit well with me. How do you become friends with someone anyway? They are strangers at one point and you spend time with them and slowly they become friends. Many of us have placed ourselves in the same situation as Natalie had. It just so happens Natalie found someone who did not have the best interest in her. Joran tricked Natalie, drugged Natalie, and had horrible alternative means for Natalie. I hope for your sake, Karma, that none of your children put themselves in a completely normal environment that happens every single night somewhere and turns out that one time is not the norm and is actually someone like Joran. If that ever happens, I sure hope you don’t blame your own daughter of her naiiveness because by then, she will have learned her lesson too late. You’ll be left with the empty piece in your heart that could wreck your entire life.
    P.S.- Be careful, your daughter could just as easily rebel and go out with “strangers” just to piss you off later on in life and find herself in the same situation. Then she would finally learn, wouldn’t she?

  119. NOYB Says:


  120. Karma Says:

    hell yeah she would finally learn and it would be to late. If my daughter was stupid enough to go somewhere with a guy that she did not know sorry but i would use her stupidity for a lesson for my grandchildren. And you watched the movie last night thats a laugh we all know that the tv and media portrayals are always true and know everything right? even though oooh yeah thats right her body has not been found so how is everyone so sure that she was drugged???So alot of parents approve of that trip i guess thats a good thing i will have plenty of examples to show my kids obviously those parents are idiots and have learned nothing.YES my parents would never approve of that trip because my father would rather have me hate him at the time and have me alive then to be where natalies parents are now. because guess what now i see why i shouldnt have gone and i am gratful my father cares enough to do the hard parenting and i grew up nataly on the other hand cannot grow up she dead.I do blame her and her mother and i will continue to do so , i am not saying that joran and those other boys have no fault. they should be killed and treated the same way they treated her. that is not my argument. My main problem with this whole thing is that people only blame the boys and say poor girl WAKE UP PEOPLE IF GIRLS CONTINUE TO BE IDIOTS AND FALL FOR EVERY PRETTY FACE AND RUN OFF WITH EVERY BOY THAT WANT HER THIS WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN MAYBE WE SHOULD SHOW THE YOUNGER GIRLS THAT WANT TO BE STUPID AND DO THE SAME THING WHERE THEY WILL END UP AND THEY WILL HAVE NO OPNE TO BLAME BUT THEMSELVES. The reason i keep telling everyone to stop refrencing other topics such as a person being taken from a library because its not the same and we are not talking about any other subject besides this one. But there you go talking about family members. was joran her family no so just stick to this case. and my stranger statement does fit because if she wasnt walking off with a stranger maybe we would have more evidence against him and he wouldnt be out having the time of his life. but sadly they had no ties so he gets to continue that great life. And you say many people have placed themselves in the same situation that she had and i agree many have ever see those signs for the nameless “have you seen me” oh thats right natalie was one of them buty you continue to do all that she did and just as much as you hope nothing happens to any of my children i hope no harm comes to you either. Although your not sincere about my children being safe and thats plainly clear i really do hope that you get wise and not put yourself out there to be harmed and when you do put yourself out there i hope you are watched and protected. See you think that i do not feel for this family i do i really do and you think that i would say diffrently if i knew someone that it happened to but you forget i have 3 sisters. one of whom was an idiot and would put herself stupidly out there drinking hanging on boys thankfully i was there and always watching i never drink so i see everything that goes on. To this day im surprised nothing happened to her when i wasnt around and when i heard of natalie i saw that so many stupid girls were doing the same thing my sister included thats why i say these things girls need to get smarter and stop thing this world is so nice and full of flowers and parents need to start parenting their kids and stop trying to be friends.

  121. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Noticed there were some new Comments here— stopped-by to catch-up. I see you’re still not getting anywhere with anyone.

  122. vtootie03 Says:

    Who are we to judge anyone. That is GOD’s job. Everyone makes mistakes whether we are 17 or 30 and unfortunately Natalie passed on because of her bad choices, but like i said people make mistakes. No one is perfect and no one deserves to be taken from this world the way she was. I hope we can all come together and just pray for justice instead of arguing amongst eachother about who was raised right and who has the better education. WHO CARES!!!!!May god have mercy on your souls.I see where your coming from “KARMA” about parents that should be more strict on their kids, but parents slip up too. You should try not to sound so harsh and bitter. Even the strictest parents children end up down the wrong road sometimes. I praying for all the missing people out there. May god be with them and their families.In Jesus Name!

  123. Paulina Says:

    I was actually watching the story of Natalie last night on TNT, and I hope that everyone’s questions get answered. My condolences go to her mother Beth. You are a very strong woman, as a mother I can imagine how hard that is, and hopefully you get justice!

  124. kreuzer33 Says:

    Comments will be deleted if you use vulgar language. This has always been my policy. Thanks 🙂

  125. Dennis Says:

    First off my sympathys go out to the family of Natalies. I think it’s a disgrace that Police in Aruba deliberatly derailed that case from the start. They are just as guilty as those involved as thos who were responsible for Natalie missing as that Young Boy was. He should be thrown in jail with his father as well. they all should. I think all college kids should boycott going to aruba in remembrance of natalie. Hit Aruba where it hurts in it’s tourist trade.May God yet expose all those invloved with this evil deed in her missing.

  126. Dennis Says:

    I too watched that movie on TNT I was horrified by the lack of concern from the police in Aruba. They showed no compassion. shame on them all. It’s a disgrace they should have all been fired.

  127. briscoe Says:

    i have a 16 year old daughter. she is very knowledgeable on whats out there in the real world. good bad and indifferent. she watched the show with me again last night and i had followed it since it began. all i can say is – too trusting and having a good time. it’s quite a shame that this happens at all much less as often as it does. no matter who is to blame. it happened. it happens. learn and protect your children to the best of your abilities.

  128. mtn. brook girl Says:

    Karma, I live in English Village in Mtn. Brook, AL. You’re an asshole. I commend you for never getting yourself into dangerous situations….Bravo. Maybe you should be nominated for Sainthood at your funeral. Point being, Natilie was a daughter, friend, dancer, local. Get off this website. Maybe writting down your thoughts and feelings in a journal would be better and less hostile to others. Yes, we as Americans have freedom of speech. With this privaledge comes responsibility for your words and the knowledge that what you say or write affects others around you. Thanks, LD

    Hello to all you others. I just watched the movie The Lovely Bones. I cried the whole movie. It was however beautiful and powerful. A must see and worth the money. 🙂

  129. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Mtn.brookgirl*… Thanks for the Tip re: “The Lovely Bones”. I really like Mark Wahlberg, was intrigued by the TV Promo Clips, and was kind-of thinking about seeing it— Now I really want to.

  130. lora Says:

    i think it’s so sad i mean he should be arredsted, Jordan i pray for you natalie by the way the movie is so good and sad.

  131. OneOp Says:

    Someone sure knows what happened to Natalie. My guess is that the authorities
    covered up for Jordan’s activities because of his fathers influence, and now they will not right the wrong. All political! at the expense of a lovely young woman losing her life and leaving her family in pain. I believe if Jordan is guilty, he is going to slip up one of these days. The Arubian law officials, as far as I can determine deliberately flubbed the investigation from the beginning

  132. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *OneOp*… You said it all, and I completely agree. I hope that SOMEone is secretly still on Joran’s tail, and/or that whomever he eventually “slips-up” to will go straight to someone who WILL “Right the Wrong”.

  133. Romac Says:

    You can be sure that no one in Aruban authority is working on this case. They botched it at the start and they are doing all in their power to white-wash it for the tourist dollar. There will be another trial before The Judge and the truth will come out. In the meanwhile, grieve with the family over the loss of their loved one!

  134. littlejohn Says:

    I think it is hard to establish what really happened to Nat Holloway(NH) as the trio in question are just not talking, what we saw was in the movie and all of us including me do not know what really happen unless we were there.

    Karma’s words will definately hurt the family of NH but I think she is the type of lady that has to learn the hard way and she is also very arrogant and proud as she cant relate to what the victims parents are feeling.

    I do agree at some point the teachers shud not let the students run wild….. I am from Asia and if there was an outing like this I am sure that drinking wud definately be restricted and asian girls r not this forward…. 17 or 70.

    Moving forwards from the movie NH was not a bad girl or anything Joran was just the type of guy that she liked….. How many intelligent ladies was victim to TED BUNDY???

    Whats worst is that Joran is so cold blooded and showed no remorse if the actor who potrayed him in the movie was really acting on what Joran was like in reality

  135. Karma Says:

    Thats all well in fine if you all want to hate me its not arrogance that i speak i just say the truth and truth hurts people. All of this could have been avoided and no im not a saint nor will I rot in hell. But i am trying to open the eyes to some parents that you can say no you dont have to lock your kids under a padlock door but do take concern in your childs life. that trip was way to much. and im sorry to the people who knew her i know it must be hard to lose someone close to you and you dont want to hear my apologize for your loss… But still someone has to tell these young girls of today the tough reality that we cannot go out into the world blind…ignorance is not bliss and we can use her example to save your other sister, friend, daughter, dancer and local. Open your eyes parents need to step up and girls need to be responsible for their actions. and thats not saying little 3 yr olds playin on their front lawn.

  136. zelda Says:

    I hear you Karma………….
    Some of these bloggers get threatened if they think someone is smarter than them on here or has the gift of writing.They have to have the last word.
    There are a couple on here that are indeed “wordy” control freaks.
    I happen to agree with your thinking pretty much down the line.
    Hang in there………..

  137. littlejohn Says:

    Dear karma,

    Please understand that not old did Natalee Holloway(NH) go on the trip as previously mentioned many times a lot of kids had gone too and I am sure there must be a meeting held like PTA(Parents and Teachers)to advise the parents the duration of the trip, Itinerary and ETC the school must have presented this trip in a way that it was safe therefore not only NH signed up for it others as well, I am sure out of the 100++ kids that went some of the parents of the kids were religious church goers we will never know.

    Karma the truth hurts yes u got that right and u dont believe in being a hypocrite but u will never ever know the feeling of the loss of yr child until u r really really in the shoes of NM’s Mother…. A lot of people can say lots of stuff if I were her I will do this and that or if it happens to my kid I will sent him to the police station bla bla ….What about Ted Bundys mother she cried and cried for him eventhough Ted had ruined so many people’s lives.

    Karma I know some people were harsh on u but U need to understand nobody knew what happend to NH, all assumptions were just based on the movie thats all.

    No one will ever know until Joran or the 2 Surinamese bros comes and really confess.

    All parents wants whats best for their kids and I am sure none of the 100 kids parents did foresee that this trip wud proof fatal for their children.

    People like Joran … rich kids without a goddamn care in the world exist not only in aruba but they exists everywhere and even in places that we are least expecting therefore if yr idea is to educate the parents on the danger’s of predators I believe it cud have been done in a more appopriate way without hurting anyone.

    Your first msg you sounded like u despice NH and u sounded as if u were jealous that NH got to do the things she wanted and got to go on the trips she wanted and u were not allowed to even kiss a guy u liked…. (Maybe I am wrong here) But yr first msg was a msg of frustration aimed at how stupied NH can be ignoring all the facts that maybe … just maybe she had really liked Johan and didnt think he was a treat at all.

    Once again there are many versions of the story and Bloggers shud not concentrate on condeming NH or her mother but try and find out whats Fact and whats fiction this is what the blog is for right??

  138. littlejohn Says:

    Dear Zelda,

    Please read karma’s first mail very carefully before u talk about others, What Karma said about Nathalee was very mean she said stuff about spreading he legs and so on.

    The day will come when someone sweeps Karma(provided she is not a lesbo 🙂 ) off her feet and even if he had certain bad traits she might not see it cause thats love and love is blind , her friends (if she has any) will also see how foolish she is…. All boils down to WHEN IT HAPPENS TO U…. Its just different right……

    HAve all of you seen the movie STEPFATHER 2009… its a very good movie whereby the mother does not see the true colors of the step father….

    It is always the case….thats why i never ever comment on others being gay or etc …. what goes around comes around.



  139. zelda Says:

    Dear Gary…..
    I will go back and read more from Karma as you suggest.If I find(for myself) anything obscene I will re-think my post.
    Off the top of my head I think Karma is trying to
    make general points about our society as a whole.About that we have to be careful……….about parenting……….about common sense.
    No one can blame a victim personally in any case.
    At least that’s what I got from it.

  140. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Yes *Zelda*, you should definitely start from the top and read everything in sequence. Disagreements with, and/or Attacks on *Karma* have nothing to do with a
    Battle of Intelligence, feeling Threatened, or wanting Control. I’m pretty sure that everyone here, including myself, really does understand Karma’s point about the Dangers lurking out there in our World, and the importance of being Aware and Careful. And that is where she could have left it. But when you imply that someone was a Slut… her Parents are irresponsible… if she had to die so we could learn something from it, it’s Okay— and, well, these are just the Tip of the Iceberg— I think you’ll better understand the TRUE reasons for the negativity from the majority of the other Posters.

    P.S. to *Littlejohn*… Actually, the Comments here are not all Assumptions based on the TV Movie.
    Most of us followed the entire real Case as it transpired through continuous News Coverage. But among your good Points, one is especially noteable—
    No one DOES really know what happened (with the exception of Joran Vandersloot), but, unfortunately, one of us here insists that the Fault lies with a girl whom we know was a Bright, Decent, Church-going, Honor Student (but according to them, was acting too big for her Britches), and with her Good, Responsible, and involved Parents (whom they blame for not caring enough). I hear you. But don’t expect the one with their Hands-over-their-Ears to.

  141. zelda Says:

    I am going to start from the top Honeydog, and respectfully read the whole shebang on the Holloway posts on here.I will see what shakes out for me.

    Posts are cyber opinions and opinions are as many as the people who write them.Somewhere in there there is a rational thought most of us can relate to.Hopefully it will jump out at me.

  142. littlejohn Says:

    Dear Honey Dog,

    Thanks for yr reply, I am quite depressed and felt sick after I saw the movie and there were a lot of versions on the internet one that really got me wondering was there was a write out saying that Joran received a black eye ( as a result of a struggle with NH) and evidence says that Joran brought her back to his room and when NH didnt want to participate in what ever sexual fantasies he made have wanted she fought back. If anyone has read law cases it is very very difficuly for 1 guy to rape a girl one on one…as i am sure common sense will prevail here right, holding her down bla bla bla during this time a girl or lady will have incredible strength to fight unless u knock her out… there is no way that is every goona happen. Thats why I am confused as his confession says she had a seizure and if she had a seizure and he didnt drug her why all the cover up he cud have just drove her to the hospital….. he either killed her on the beach in a fit of rage or killed her in his bedroom…. the write up also states that Joran’s father ordered new funiture few days after NH’s dissapearence ….. why wud he do that unless there was a struggle…

    To Zelda,

    karma may have said some nasty stuff earlier but I believe that it was some sort of jelaousy rage that made her do that, I am sure she did not mean what she said but at that time there maybe some jealousy that NH had freedom to do what she wanted and Karma just didnt have the freedom to do certain things she wanted thats why she acted angrily … Example …… the gril had so much freedom and she had to be stupid and screw it all up…….and may be just maybe KARMA also wished she looked as good or better than NH.

    Please understand that even the prostitutes killed by the green river killer didnt deserve what they got.

    Some people are just PLAIN PLAIN EVIL,,,,,, No excuses can be said.

    The girls that deserved this sort of punishment I believe is the ladies who wrote letters to Ted Bundy wanting to be his lover eventhough they know what a monster he was …. Those lOT really deserved it if u asked me NOT NH

    Moving forwards Honeydog which scenario have u read…. he killed NH in his house or on the beach…

    Do care to comment.

    God Bless and I hope NH will have a justice.

    By the way if all of u are talking about the “Lovely Bone” it was fiction please see the “Girl Next Door” who this poor girl suffered.

  143. Karma Says:

    karma may have said some nasty stuff earlier but I believe that it was some sort of jelaousy rage that made her do that, I am sure she did not mean what she said but at that time there maybe some jealousy that NH had freedom to do what she wanted and Karma just didnt have the freedom to do certain things she wanted thats why she acted angrily … Example …… the gril had so much freedom and she had to be stupid and screw it all up…….and may be just maybe KARMA also wished she looked as good or better than NH……….?????? R U KIDDING ME???now this is going to my looks and if im a lezbo hahhaah well sorry to disapoint im happily married and i have no clue how that got to my looks but jealous umm hardly ive never had that word in my dictionary i have never had any complaints over my looks in fact i have been very blessed thanks, nice try though but very far off. so not having freedon fair from That as well but i proved i was trustworthy and my parents would be careful of where i could go and made sure of who i was with as well as my dad giving me the birds and the bees and the talk of be a women and dont think you have to give it up in the first week… as far as my earlier comments go i said spread her legs because much like everyone loves to watch the movie and say it was actually all factual her friends even say she left willingly so when i say spread her legs sorry but no way in hell a person would go with someone they dont know and think everything is peachy… and although honeydogg will come and say many people have done it thats exactly my point so many little kids think “well my friends do it” and that is why we have so many missing kids …tell your kids you dont have to do it if your friends do.. Also this thing with 100 kids went on this trip that should be taken to the pta and the board who in the hell was watching these kids and would let them go off of the premises?? oh they didnt know oh ok so then i was right the girls were out doing things they shouldnt of thinking the world is a peaceful place so once again ignorance is not bliss.

  144. littlejohn Says:

    dear karma ,

    no one will know if u r happily married etc or if yr husband had to wait until u were married to have it… no one here also knows if god bless u with good looks….

    U have made some good points but like I said u cud have stated in in a more appropriate manner.

    Your first mails sound as if NH deserves it, he mum was foolish and a scarifice of someone stupid is ok as the rest are ok right?

    Please come down from yr high horse and not be so arrogant.

    Of course NH went willingly because she was conned by Joran, if u read all the statments this was not Joran’s first time in luring ladies he had done this before…. Also u migh ask out of the 100 girls why did NH had to be the victim…. answer because Joran planned it.

    Also please note once again Teb bundys victims were all very intelligent ladies… he had conceled his true identity so well that all those close to him didnt even know what he was up to until it was toooo late.

    Unless NH was retarded do u think she was going to be asked to left on the beach alone……

    None of us knows what happen and u have no right to be so mean in yr comments.

    Honestly the way u sounded in yr mail is that u felf that Nathlee had the freedom that u cud not have.

    In yr earlier mail u said yr parents were very stict with u but in this mail u said yr parents trusted u and u had the freedom……

    NH was not stupied in anyway it was just Joran who was in a different league….

    Its just simple NH was maybe looking for romance and let her guard down Joran was planning this all along and had experience doing this as he was a resident there and knew lots of people in the pubs and Casino and not to mentioned he was loded and well connected.

    The most important is that none of NH’s friends said she was a slut and cud give it up easily.

    I think u r used to living in a fantasy world,,,, I am sure if u have kinds one day and your kids read what u wrote about NH they wud be suprised too

  145. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Okay, think I’ll make my first reply to *Karma*, and get it out of the way….
    You are STILL blaming EVERYTHING on Natalie and her Parents. You are STILL writing as though YOU know what happened. No matter how much you say that you are only trying to make a point regarding “Life Choices”, you LIE. You repeatedly, constantly, continuously focus on RIPPING THIS GIRL AND HER FAMILY APART. I’ll remind you AGAIN— YOU don’t know what or how ANYthing occurred! Are you FORGETTING that Natalie’s friends ALSO reported that SHE was the “Most Responsible among all of them”, and the very-likely possibility of DATE-RAPE DRUGS????— or is your Mind simply always IN THE GUTTER and you WANT it there!! And this totally INNACCURATE Disgrace you sling on Natalie’s MOTHER for “not being a better Parent”… You really need to BACK-OFF!! Unlike JORAN VANDERSLOOT’s Parents, BETH HOLLOWAY raised a good girl— involved in Church and School activities, had good and decent friends, high goals, and was VERY respectable, responsible, and trustworthy. You wanna talk about Caring and Responsible PARENTING??— Shift your Shit-Throwing on the raising of the Spoiled, Arrogant, Canniving, Cocky, Womanizing, Lying, PREDITOR, who is ON Video-Tape LAUGHING about Natalie’s siezure on the Beach. You wanna say, if Natalie’s Mother HADN’T been so STUPID in permitting her to go, and if Natalie HADN’T been so STUPID in going-out to Dance and enjoy herself that night during a special Vacation that she herself had earned, and if she HADN’T been so STUPID in being “more careful”, she’d still be alive??— I’ll repeat what we’ve tried to get through your thick Skull countless times above— The Best CHILDREN, with the BEST Parents in the World, CANNOT, EVER, be “Protected” OR “Safe” from potential Harm, at EVERY time and every PLACE— GET OFF the PIN-POINTING of “Far-away Trips”, “Clubs”, and these types of things you insist on BLAMING it all on! If you wanna insist on believing (and trying to convince everybody) that, by being a Strict Parent, and by Kids being Strict on themselves, they somehow have
    “less of a Chance” in encountering Danger, I’m sorry, but, YOU are the one who is STUPID (or, don’t you watch or read the NEWS on that Planet you’re on).
    Love our Children… Teach and Guide them Well… Protect them as much as we can… Don’t hold them back… Let them be their own Person… Let them Spread their Wings… and, Yes..BE their “Friend”—
    What Misfortunes befall them is NOT— as you think— always our, or their, FAULT.

    Finally, to *Littlejohn*….

    It’s late (and I’m pretty fatigued after all the above), but do want to at least answer your question. Having followed the News Coverage from beginning to end, the overall consensus— and that which I myself also believe to be True— is that Natalie’s death occurred on the Beach. Although Joran Vandersloot’s
    Story “waivered” slightly a couple times, his original and later-repeated account is the one more-than-likely accurate. He not only admitted to taking Natalie to the Beach to see the Lighthouse, but admitted to leaving her there. The one really-significant Clencher to support what happened, is that, Natalie’s Parents were asked, during their very first meeting with an Aruban Authority, whether Natalie ever had “Siezures”. The Holloways were a bit “confused” at this question at the time (Natalie had no History of Siezures), and it was not until very much later— when Joran told an Undercover Journalist that Natalie was “Shaking” and “Spasing-out” on the Sand— that Natalie’s parents realized that Joran was indeed “Involved”. Joran admitted to taking-off, without even ever checking to see if Natalie was alive or dead when she finally became still, and having a friend go and “Dispose” of her. No matter what “Speculation” has surrounded the “Credability” of Joran’s video-taped conversation with that Reporter, personally, I have not one shred of Doubt in MY mind that it was the absolute Truth.

  146. zelda Says:

    Whoa honeydog. It’s karma’s opinion.Right or wrong.
    Untie that knot in your tail.
    Your views are not THE views……right or wrong.
    We all feel strongly about cases like these……..
    This blog forum let’s us see how very different we are in the way we feel and think.
    Nothing has stirred my passions more that the anthony saga.My blood boils just thinking of typing it here.
    You can’t take everyone to school……….

  147. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Zelda*, I’ll be the first one to agree with you (except for untying my Tail.. LOL!), and I’m certainly not interested in being the only Blogger here, and arguing with myself (LOL again!). By definition, an Opinion is also considered the same as a “Judgement”, based on Information or Knowledge about something. In Casey Anthony’s case, we’ve all had a million Opinions— but those Opinions all at least have “Grounds”…. solid visual and auditory factual PROOF of how she behaved, and the shameless, evil person she is. Same with George and Cindy…. Whether we’re actually Right or Wrong, what we say about them is at least based on what we KNOW— because we’ve Seen and Heard it with our own Eyes and Ears. Throughout her Comments, Karma’s Flat-out CONDEMNING of Natalie Holloway with the various
    “Labels” she has picked for, and stuck on her, and the undignified Descriptions of how Natalie acted and what she did— without ANY Knowledge of this girl’s Character— NOR what “In Fact” happened— is NOT an OPINION. As well, “Labeling” Natalie’s Mother as an “Irresponsible Parent”, and “acting more like a Friend than a Parent”, is NOT an OPINION. These are all downright “Unfounded” ACCUSATIONS, for which Karma is Dead-Wrong in doing. Unlike other Posters here, who have actually brought-up their Knowledge of Natalie and her Family, and voiced their Opinions accordingly, Karma just made-up her Mind, made a distinct “Decision”— not an Opinion— that Natalie “asked for it”, and her Mother “is to Blame”…. yet she personally knows NOTHING about either of them. Based on how she only sticks to “certain”, “isolated” things, I find it hard to believe that she even followed this Case each and every single day, watched and listened to each and every Interview with Family, Friends, and the Authorities, and watched and heard each and every single detail reported. I’ve already spoken for myself in agreeing with Karma’s “main Mission”— to remind us of Danger, and to convey the importance of being Careful. BUT— you don’t take this Story, MAKE-UP “Dirt” that you just feel like adding to it, Critizize and Disgrace the people in it just because you think they “must have been that way”, and expect it to be regarded and accepted as an “Opinion”, much less one deserving of Respect. I’m not at all in need of veying for, or having, the “Last Word”, or trying to take everyone to School. This was only for you, and only specifically regarding Karma’s statements about Natalie and Beth Holloway, in hopes that you can understand why so many of us here don’t appreciate her inaccurate “Assumptions”,
    “Fabrications of the Mind”, and her just plain Ignorrant and Degrading Assults on these two individuals. “Feeling strongly about a Case”, and “Putting people down”— without Justification— are two VERY different and opposite things. We can’t ALL be Wrong here. By the way, Thanks, as always, for YOUR Opinion…. I’m always glad to know it.

  148. zelda Says:

    Hi Honeydog…….
    I by no means support mean spirited uneducated comments that is for sure.I do believe for this or any other forum to have meaning,it has to include thinking of all types.I am speaking of benign views.
    Some of us see deeper meaning…others see what they want to see and others react out of their personal experiences and so on and so on.
    I personally learn most about who I am from those who’s opinions are as far from mine as they can get.Kinda shakes the dust out of my underwear.
    I always enjoy your comments……….I think you are a deep thinker with a good portion of common sense and fair play.Nice to see that.
    It’s an interesting time we live in eh what???
    And this “alone and anonymous keyboard” communication is allowing escape hatch thinking we have not had for too long.Very interesting what pops out of us in the wee hours in this venue don’t you think?
    Let’s hope that the word “justice in all these cases we talk about on here is not thrown out with the bath water.I am rooting for the fullest of definitions on that word to survive.

  149. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Your reply is appreciated *Zelda*. I have to say that it always amazes me how certain people— only knowing each other from this “Anonymous Keyboard Communication”, as you say— are easily able to
    “read” another person…. If I didn’t know better (WAIT a minute.. I DON’T! (LOL), I would almost Bet you’re “Psychic”— What you said about me (and I’m not Bragging— more-like Humbled, actually) is really True, and, for me, it’s Nice to know that you are one of those people who do see it. I know exactly what you mean about learning from others whose Opinions are nowhere near my own— It certainly plays a big part in Carving-out the personal Convictions we firmly stand by, and yet can sometimes surprisingly Open a Door that results in minor, or even major, Readjustments. I purposely “left” this Page a couple months ago, upon realizing that the only thing I was “learning” from Karma was that I was wasting my Time. Worse, it was obvious SHE was learning nothing at ALL— from me, or anyone else here. Thanks to you tonight, and your last Paragraph, my little “Readjustment” comes in the form of agreeing with you, that the only thing which really matters here is the mutual feeling I share with you in hoping that “Justice” will eventually be granted to Natalie and her Parents. To hell with everything else here of un-related Significance and Value.

  150. littlejohn Says:

    Dear Honey Dog,

    Thanks for yr kind comments, If what Joran had said to be true that NH died on the beach of seizures…. i am sure he was fully responsible as the way he lied and disposed of the body was really really sick.

    Copy to Zelda…. Yes in this blog we cant stop anyone from speaking their mind but then again….. it also shows us what sort of person they are.

    I am sure karma is a sort of person than is very arrogant to write the way she did.

    Thanks again for yr kind reply Honey Dog

  151. Honeydog0629 Says:

    It’s been good having you here, *Littlejohn*. Between you and *Zelda* coming to join-in, this Topic has been given some much-needed “Calming-down”, and returned to the kind of proper and decent Discussion it deserves.

  152. KARMA back at you KARMA! Says:

    Karma, you are a straight up B*@TCH, she’s young and naive..true true, but that doesn’t mean it’s her fault for what happen. You pissed me off and so many people in here. Natalie is still an angel; I’m glad you used KARMA as your nick, cuz what you said, I hope comes around to you one day.

  153. littlejohn Says:

    Dear Honey Dog,

    Thanks for yr kind comments, this blog is to at lease discuss what happend to Poor NH and not to condemn anyone…. This is one of the most confused cases I have seen… its like u know who the culprits are but just cant get them.

    Really sorry for NH as what happened that nite no one will know……

    The movie does not show what really happened I am sure of it….

  154. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Littlejohn*…. Yes, it reminds me of the O.J. Simpson Case— Everyone knew, before, during, and after his Trial that he had murdered his Wife and her Friend, yet he walked-away a Free Man and there was nothing anyone could do about it. In Natalie’s case, I’m convinced that Joran Vandersloot’s father (a Judge) had everything to do with the freedom that Joran is enjoying today. Spoiled little Rich Kid with a crooked and devious “Man of the Law” as a Parent.
    Makes me sick. I don’t know that I could deal with the “Cover-ups”, “Railroading”, and Misjustice that Natalie’s family has been forced to swallow. Like Natalie’s Mother, I’m a very strong person, but, I’m afraid my Fury over my Daughter’s killer walking-around this Earth without a care in the World would turn me into a ruthless Vigilante. I know that Beth Holloway is now actively involved in being a Spokesperson to young people, and I’m sure her work is what “keeps her going”, but honestly, I myself would still be so Livid and Tormented that it would make me Crazy. To me, that woman is a Saint, and I still Hope and Pray every day that she is rewarded someday with the Justice she and her beautiful Daughter deserve, more than anyone I can think of.
    Thanks again for keeping the subject Interesting!

  155. littlejohn Says:

    Dear Honey Dog,

    I didnt follow up much on the OJ case, But The NH case really make me feel very very bad. Being a guy you shud learn to take NO for an answer and do not resort to this kind of crimes….I think some spoilt brats are getting away with lots of stuff especially when they get involved with a girl or lady that is not so well to do.

    Sick assholes that has parents high up usually treat ladies like dirt.

    If the ladies are just in in for the money and aiming to use the guy than ok fair game…. but what if the ladies are innocent.

    have u hear of the actress kelly Brook? she is the perfect lady if u ask me… her body is sooooooooooooo damn damn good…. But If i was in a situation like … I cud only have her by drugging her etc…. I wud rather watch her movie and jerk off and not cause anyone any trouble….

    Some guys just plain sick…… taking a life and not even feel guilty about it.

    Joran shud be castrated of u ask me

  156. Honeydog0629 Says:

    Let’s just keep our Fingers crossed, and have Faith in knowing that Joran Vandersloot’s “Day” WILL come, *Littlejohn*.

  157. Smiley Says:

    He is sick, this Joran. And so are his parents, obviously, as they keep protecting this murderer. So what if he is their son? Obviously he is sick and needs help. I suppose Joran’s mother and father are mentally ill as well, how else could they raise such a sick and cold blooded murderer and then protect him and deny the parents of a murdered innocent girl to know the truth about what happened to their daughter. I hope their precious Joran gets life in prison and gets raped by other serial killers every day for the rest of his life. : ) And he will. He will. Just wait and see.

    Rest in peace dear Natalee.

  158. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Smiley*, I think about what you pointed-out, alot (Joran’s parents denying Natalie’s family the Closure they deserve). I vividly remember Joran’s mother and father sitting in their Home giving an Interview to Reporters when their “precious Son” was first taken to Jail— His father was arrogant, and his mother was crying uncontrollably, saying over and over “We want our Son.. We want our Son to come Home.. He needs to come Home to us”…… and I kept yelling at the TV, “What do you think NATALIE’s family feels like!!” You are right— They couldn’t care less. But like you say, What GOES-around, COMES-around…. and I can’t WAIT!

  159. Shaka Says:


    Kudos to you! Most, if not all, of Karma’s posts made me furious on how she tried to get her point across. She could have gotten the same point across in a much nicer way.

    Has Natalie’s body ever been found?

  160. Honeydog0629 Says:

    *Shaka*: No, poor Natalie was never found. The belief is that she was taken out to Sea and dumped. I am able to imagine many things, but I can not fatham the horror in the Mind and the pain in the Heart her Family must feel and endure for the rest of their lives. I will continue to Hope and Pray for their Nightmare to end one day, and to grant Peace to Natalie herself.

  161. Perry Says:

    Most of you have no clue what Happend that night, So let me give you a little insight as to what did happen. My buddie is an FBI agent here in the states and went down to Aruba to interview him, But the only thing their police would let the agents do was sit in and watch as their police officers interrogated him. And Joran Van der Sloot openly said that he himself paid the bartender to drop two Ecstasy pills and two date rape pills into her drink, The way Joran put it as soon as the pills took affect he pulled her up to walk out of the club and as they walked out his friends were right there with the car, So yes she did get in the back seat with Joran but, She was flying High. Sad thing is he had to drug her to get her on the beach to rape her, And ok, You might say well it wasn’t him that druged her in the bar, But he told the police and the FBI that he gave her cocain after he had sex with her. By then she was passed out because he gave it to her through her mouth. So yes Not only is he a rapist but a killer as well. If it wasn’t for Joran Van der Sloot’s Dad being a judge in training and putting a stop to all interviews he would be in prison today. But yes Karma does have a funny way of coming around because today Joran’s dad was playing tennis in Aruba and droped dead:) There is a God, And beleave me everywhere that Joran goes he is watched. I heard a while ago that some MOB BOSS from the east coast has a contract out on him, Joran has changed so many lives by killing Natalie, All he had to do was man up and call 911, But no he had to run to daddy and have him help put her on the boat to go dump her, Well as they say what goes around comes around, And for at least one of them it did.

  162. Honeydog0629 Says:

    HEY! Anybody here?? Just heard on the News tonight that Joran VanderSloot’s father had a Heart Attack and has died. Lots of talk happening now about Natalee’s Case again, as Paulus VanderSloot was a Key Witness, and presumed to have Covered-up the actions of his Son. It might be a Long-Shot, but just maybe, with any Luck, and the goodness of God, this could eventually bring-about something new and of usefulness.

  163. Denise Says:

    Karma, You are an idiot! She was drugged with a date rape drug, I am a sexual assualt nurse! and this was in no way her fault! Did she have rape me or murder me on her forehead, I think not. There is no excuse for that kid that did this to her. They have said he is a sociopath, he has no remorse at all. Do you know what a sociopath is you are obviously undereducated and ignorant. Go and educate your self, why do stupid people shoot off their mouths when they dont know what they are talking about! Listen I dont care if she was naked on the beach if she did not give consent for sex then its rape if she was unconscious and couldnt give consent its still rape!!!

    Go get some education!!!

  164. MoesMama Says:

    I have read this entire blog and I think the consensus feels the same way that I do about everything, please bring Natalee home safe, but if that is not possible, please bring her home so that her parents may finally find the closure that they so desperately need.

    I am the mother of a 24 year old son and a 21 year old daughter. I too would have probably let my daughter take that trip to Aruba, with Chaperone’s with them. I have complete faith in my daughter that she would make a well informed decision when it came to “partying” since I did not raise STUPID children, and both of my children, like Natalee Holloway, excelled in school and worked hard for things. This would be a graduation celebration with all of her classmates, but I would like it if there were Chaperone’s with and if I felt there were not enough Chaperone’s, I would volunteer to help out. My daughters friends, in that particular case, would never have let some guy that my daughter did not know, to blindly lead her out of a bar. That’s what friends do for each other. However, now since we all know that Aruba does not protect U.S. Citizen’s against the wicked and famous, I would not recommend that anyone allows their wife or daughter to go there.

    I hope that these preditors finally get what is coming to them since Joran’s father has passed away, his nice little cozy protection blanket should have perished with him too.


  165. MoesMama Says:

    By the way, I do not feel that any child is stupid…….nor do I feel that children who are rewarded for hard work, are spoiled simply because there families have a little more money than others. Nor do I feel like the color of one’s skin should make any difference in how they are treated as far as a child being missing. I am a mother, so of course, I follow all of the cases of missing children. I have never seen a case where I thought that I person who was missing did something “STUPID”. These boys, now men, prayed on girls like this. They drugged her up, and got her out of there so that they could do “God knows what” to her. I just hope that she in no way suffered, if she is indeed dead. I believe that the story that Joran told the very first time was closer to the truth than any that he has ever told. I also believe that whether he murdered her himself, or whether he caused her to have a drug enduced seizure and then allowed her to lay there alone and die, he is still a murderer and so is anyone who helped him with this deed, even if the other person was his father. If it is true that his father had to buy new furniture shortly after Natalee was missing then, yes I believe 100% that she was raped and murdered in his home.

    Can’t anyone do anything to find out the truth?


  166. Honeydog0629 Says:

    I think I’d be demanding “Truth Serum” or something be administered. He’s the only one everything points-to, and, Evidence or no Evidence, there’s got to be another way to get the necessary and accurate Proof. But then, this requires the Initiative of the Aruban Authorities— which, as we know, is a Lost Cause. I don’t know how Natalee’s family can take it.

  167. john Says:

    The movie is super far fetched ! Many comment on what they have seen on TV or other media. That little Island has no force to go up against giants and media giants. How many stories on the news are really true as you would know it. Hipe sells ! there is a local writer who wrote a book and according to me best describes the whole story, from beginning to end. Book was published in 2006 by Mr isaac chin and called the natalay holloway case. there are some mispelled Local names of trees and other objects. Nobody would ever know what happened and probablynever will. That Island has to date the lowest crime rate in the Western Hemispere(CIA fact book) i personally believe this case was un fortunate and jet maybe fortunate for some who took advantage of the circumstances. There are many facts that are never going to reach many, and most of those have to do with the family whose lost is sympatized amongs the locals. Movie, plastic surgery, trust fund, insurance claim, free hotels, meals, book writen, and more. it is sad either way it might have been influenced or not. One strange note , why have the student the traveling high school leave leaving it up to the hotel to investigate, they all left the island including seven chaparones. Later all were asked to help the case and come forward, not one, none came to say whay they saw, made any statements or comments to local ,FBI and or other foreign investigative groups. What ? wonder was there something to hide ? dont know! but makes u wonder! Must have been an expected behavioral trait of the one left behind. Even later down the road when things were obvious, no information to help ! If you would have never needed to learn to investigate or solve crime, why would you be a lost case by trying! Even the FBI was here, and nothing. Still nothing, maybe never nothing. Let the Island be. It is a safe place ! CIA states this fact !

  168. OneOp Says:

    The chaperones and other students left on schedule, but I have had interest in why the chaperones never spoke of their needing to have had more responsibiliy
    They must have been some of the parents and all is quiet. To leave a young woman to wander off with strangers is certainly not what chaperones are there for.
    Wasn’t Natalie underage? (17) What were they doing when she left with Joran?????
    As sad and bad as I feel about Natalie, and agree Joran no doubt murdered or left
    her to die, there is a missing link and to how Natalie ended up in the car with those guys in the first place. Again, what were the chaperones doing at the time
    these students were in the place she left from. ????????????

  169. john Says:

    circumstance that fell in good place. The boy didnt kill her, maybe she OD in his hands, or something, super bad reaction from his part, could he have maybe saved her life otherwise, paniced like a normal 18 year old. Liar he is, he will always continue. some change and dont lie anymore, but we have all covered up our mischiefs , broken plate it wasnt me kind of thing. not everyony is the same or have the same level of norms and value. should he be punished, yes! he is being punished and the Lord knows what he is doing. We all have our time to go, NH was that day, did she suffer not while in Aruba(dont know). Not the way we would like be remebered by, but we have no control of certain things in life and we should have the wisdom to know that we cant prevent stuff even on a crimeless island.Judgement is being passed and more will most likely be passed. Joran is not a victim he had something that could have been done and would have made it all different. The Island became a victim of media ignorance.

  170. john Says:

    no drinking age, no one under 16 is permitted in a bar unless accompanied by a parent. old law never changed, never needed to.

  171. Sallie Says:

    Haha. Wow. I know I am about a year late responding to this thread but……JEEEEEEZE Karma. I do understand what you are saying about her not using common sense (I really do) because I don’t think I would have gotten in a car with a bunch of strangers but you never know. However…the fact that you keep blaming her parents is very frustrating to me. I don’t know how you were raised and what your parents were like but I must say you are WAY off base when you go off blaming someones parents for their daughters death. I know SOOOO many friends who were incredibly sheltered and whose parents were in NO WAY their friend and a lot of those girls turned out to be the most rebellious, dumb girls I have ever known. You cannot go off and start assuming her parents are to fault in any way. NATALIE made the decision and no one else made that decision for her.

  172. Sallie Says:

    Everyone should know that I was in no way saying that it was Natalie’s fault. The only point I was trying to make was that it is absolutely absurd to blame her parents (just about as absurd it is to blame Natalie). I don’t think you can blame anyone for someones murder except the murderer. Suuure, Natalie could have made better decisions that night, but so could everyone of us at some point in out lives…But lucky for us (Karma) those poor decisions didn’t result in our death. No one is perfect.

  173. Jim Says:

    I must say, I respect everyone’s post and you are free to post what you want. However, I had to get involved in this blog. This is a sad story and I hope that the killers are found prosecuted. I think Karma has some valid points which everyone is putting a different spin on. However, the facts remain.

    1) 17 years old in the U.S. is considered a minor, male or female.

    2) Aruba is a foreign country and not part of the U.S. PERIOD!

    3) You do not have the same rights in Aruba as you do in the U.S. This includes Canada and Mexico. therefore, the U.S. is at the mercy of that country to investigate anything legal. Local people of that country know this.

    You are responsible for your own actions in another country not your parents or the U.S. Don’t venture off alone in a country you are not familiar with. There is good and evil every where! I am sorry people think this is a perfect world. Always be cautious! If you think that Natalie and her parents are resolved of any responsibility think again. Would you give your retirement money to invest in Aruba to a complete stranger without first checking references? Again this is tragic for Natalie and her family.

  174. caroline Says:

    OMG!!!Joran has been arrested in Peru, south america for the murder of a daughter of a man who ran 2x for president. Broken Neck caused a hematoma on her brain. Poor baby. He-snapped-her-neck! He then paid a taxi 300 BUCKS TO DRIVE HIM TO CHILI (20 hours away!) Too bad daddy’s dead after tennis. Also, the FBI wants to charge him with extortion (I think Nat’s momma sent him $15,000 if he would tell her where Natalee’s Body lay.) The total amount he wanted was $250,000. SO. Everyone who prayed on this site and wished for the hammer to fall on joran’s face (hard) Way to go!!!! Most of You all made a difference. God Bless The Holloways and the fine young lady in Lima,Peru May both girls rest in Gods Loving Light.

  175. Dorothy Says:

    I believe he done it, i feel sorry for natalie family, its not natalie fault for what had happen. the girl just wanted to have a little fun why she was on her trip, all girls like to do that why they can. im a mom of three little girls and im sure my girls would do something i wouldnt agree to. but also i have done things in my life i wish i never did thats why they call them mistakes. but people learn from their mistakes too. i hope he gets put behind bars for life right where be belongs. I pray for natalie family i do hope they find her. rather she alive or dead what matters is her family gets some kind of peice and natalie gets her piece she deserves. this world is a cruel place to live. i wish the best for natlaies family god bless.

  176. All i can say is to the lot of you putting i girl down which died by the hands of men who can’t get a women, so they take something they would never get and use it and kill it after using it they fuck it away as if it was i pic of shit!

    May it never happen to any of your kids, because maybe you will go online and see what ass holes are calling your kid and none of them where they never new the person in the first place and yet they judge the kid who has been missing for 5 years!

    So maybe when your child goes missing and some mans say on video he did it! then judge but tell then how the fuck can you judge when none of you no how the mother feels or to the girl who has been killed by ass wipes who if i got them i cut of there dicks and watch them die slow and they beat and killed women who wee bones are nothing to a man bones, like have the dicks out there that beat women and think they can do what ever the fuck they would like well i say to you go get life and go judge you own fucking life before you point others out!

    What goes around comes around so i would really be watching what u say for you could fine your self where the mother of that kid is or even where they lifted that lovely ladies body so may it never happen too any of you up there talking shit!


  177. Natalee Holloway's Body Believed Found in Aruba « Kreuzer's Korner…

    Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……

  178. RayVaughn Carter Says:

    Either Natalie is not dead, or everyone is trying to cover up her murder. I can not believe we can send a man to the moon and back, transplant a heart or brain and we can’t find an 18 year old girl or her remains. If her remains are in fact found, someone needs to be punished for her death, and cast into hell with a broken back so they can’t crawl out.

  179. WasillaBilly Says:

    How can you guys not say that this girl wasn’t drugged? It’s easy to sit back and judge, however, NOBODY know whether or not this girl was drugged before she was ruthlessly murdered! I have been to the Caribbean many times. You are not in Kansas anymore toto! Only our poor innocent kids don’t know that!

    I am 47 years old, I was drugged by my local police department all because I took a stand against their “control and power”. I spoke out against their B.S.! they play BS games on our people. I took a stand, spoke out, and was drugged at a party where some of our “so called innocent protectors of the law” were in attendance. It did not turn out well for me, but fortunately I was ALIVE the next morning. I guess they knew they would be suspects in the murder…………… otherwise I would not be here today to talk about it.

    Natalie?………….. stop your self righteous judgment. Really, just stop it! Otherwise I challenge YOU to spend her last night in HER shoes!

    May God bless her parents to deal with the pain and trauma that they are still dealing with today.

    Fuck YOU ARUBA. FUCK YOU. Oh, and FUCK YOU KARMA as well, you self righteous, lesbian bitch.

  180. JohnM Says:

    What a bunch of crap. What makes this case different then any other is Joran had already drugged and raped others before Natalee even went to Peru. His Father was best friends with Arubas top cop and Joran gor in no trouble.

    The facts we know is that Natalee was drugged at the bar and she was murdered. They covered it up and the Govt spent millions defending the perps while they spent millions more attacking the Family.This place aint dinseyland folks. The casino and hotel where Natalee stayed is owned by one of the most powerful mobs in the world. As a matter of fact Mike Posner ran prostittion and gambling for the Mob for years and years before he was sent to prison.

    Aruba needs to be Boycotted as two young girls were murdered and it should have never happened.

  181. One Op Says:

    I agree JohnM, that some LE helped cover up. They should be responsible for the death of the second girl in ? Peru? Possible he has murdered other girls too. Had there been any unsolved missing/murdered young women in Aruba befoer Natalee?

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